BOOT: Couldn't find NTLDR
Using arial fontUp until 5/2004 had been using XP PRO on Supermicro PT3DLE Dual 1GHz P3's with 1GB SDRAM. Swapped out MB , P3's & SDRAM. Substituted Supermicro Dual 3. 066GHz XEON's w/2gb (per spec) SDRAM.
[font:arial]Using arial fontUp until 5/2004 had been using XP PRO on Supermicro PT3DLE Dual 1GHz P3's with 1GB SDRAM.
Swapped out MB , P3's & SDRAM. Substituted Supermicro Dual 3.066GHz XEON's w/2gb (per spec) SDRAM. Needed to reactivate with MS because MB Change is big enough to trigger this. On the old system there were no boot-up problems. Now, the system never boots from the HDDs. We always get the Message "BOOT: Couldn't find NTLDR Please insert a new disk...." The old system had a Adaptec 29160AUW SCSI Card, SoudnBlaster Audio, & ATI "All-in-Wonder PCI Video. The SCSI supported a CD Reader, CD R/W, DVDRAM. On the IDE we had Primary Master & Slave Western Digital 120GB HDDs, Secondary Master is SONY DVD "do it all" and Secondary Slave was a 60GB HDD. The boot order on new & old systems are Floppy, CD(Sony), and Primary Master HDD. Once the system repaired itself for the new MB, all we ever get is the above message. We have tried 3 different 550W PS's, 12+ 40 & 80 conductor IDE cables, 2 Motherboards (same model), 7 HDDs 60 & 120 GB Western Digital & Maxtor HDDs singly, doubly, and triple. w & w/o The SONY DVD, Flashed CMOS to two different Rev.s from SuperMicro. Used HDD MFG. HDD tests w/o errors. at least 12 new installs of XP PRO (and DOS 6.22 on small partition (it gave a different error message, but it was "Couldn't Find" type.))We removed all the PCI cards w/o success. Tried MS "Recovery Module" to no avail. Scanned for Virus, etc. Usually McAfee catches a couple of w/32 Netsky's in email every morning after we turn on the PC which can't be cleaned - we just delete. Before this system we got tired of NORTON?SYMANTEC Virus, Firewall, Etc. but over the years, we found that Symantec sent tendrils all over the registry and the daily operation gave the feeling of system instability which we also find with MS OFFICE does the same thing. We do have MS OFFICE installed, but use LOTUS Suite which is more user friendly and does little in the REGISTRY. We have found three ways to boot into XP PRO. (1)(SLOPPY) Enter BIOS SETUP on power-up or restart, do nothing, Save & Exit - this is almost 100%, but UGH!!!; (2) Put a bootable CD into the SONY DVD. this will give a Message "Press any key tro boot from CD. . .". If we pres any ky we boot into the CD and what ever it is programmed to do. If we don't Press any key and wait the 5-10 seconds it takes to time out (Note: The HDD light flickers during this wait) Then It boots from the HDD,; (3) The easiest! Format a Floppy in XP PRO, copy the NTLDR, NTDETECT.com and th BOOT.INI from the drive that won't boot, leave it in the drive - works 100%. After the CD or Floppy, the CD or floppy are not needed unless we restart or Power-up. We found a small applet on the web as referenced in a MS article. NTLDR is never in the first sector - it is in the first cluster. When installing MS's "RECOVERY MODULE", a file "CMLDR is created in the first sector. We trie FIXMBR anmd FIXBOOT w/o success. The applet doesn't allow writing a drive (only reading) The first time we tried to run thre "RECOVERY MODULE" The HDD booted, but that may have been a fluke because it is still there. If we delete the Recovery Module, all we see from the first sector on is a bunch of directories in following sectors until sectors in the cluster followed by a few files (NTLDR towards the end of the first cluster and the "CMLDR" is gone from the first sector. Once booted, XP PRO runs perfectly as far as we can see. It seems that the only the MBR, NTLDR, NTDTECT.COM & boot.ini are necessary is at boot. I'm not positive of that?! Three things cpme to mind (1)A timing problem;(2)Something preventing NTLDR from being written into the First Sector;(3)Something in the MBR that is looking for a file with a name other than NTLDR and not finding it, says it cant find NTLDR; And maybe some wrong code in the MB CMOS. I have spent 40-50+ hours on the phone with MS SUPPORT, hours with Western Digital & Maxtor and tested their drives with their Test Programs w/o problems, SuperMicro - who d don't know their product very well. Supermicro now says to send them this system with all of its external gadgets: Keymoard, 240MB Floppy drive, Backup Drive, USB card reader, network and attached PC's. DSL MOdem, Mouse. I use this machine everyday and it would cost a small fortune just to pack up several PC's, Scanner, Hundreds of pounds for a couple of months with my daily used software, private info- they are nuts!!! I've been futzing with this for 4 months now. Anybody out there got any clever ideas? It maybe glitch in 2 revs of Supermicro CMOS BIOS, some sort of odd virus that nobody's discovered. The PC works, but needs crutches to start!!!!!
Swapped out MB , P3's & SDRAM. Substituted Supermicro Dual 3.066GHz XEON's w/2gb (per spec) SDRAM. Needed to reactivate with MS because MB Change is big enough to trigger this. On the old system there were no boot-up problems. Now, the system never boots from the HDDs. We always get the Message "BOOT: Couldn't find NTLDR Please insert a new disk...." The old system had a Adaptec 29160AUW SCSI Card, SoudnBlaster Audio, & ATI "All-in-Wonder PCI Video. The SCSI supported a CD Reader, CD R/W, DVDRAM. On the IDE we had Primary Master & Slave Western Digital 120GB HDDs, Secondary Master is SONY DVD "do it all" and Secondary Slave was a 60GB HDD. The boot order on new & old systems are Floppy, CD(Sony), and Primary Master HDD. Once the system repaired itself for the new MB, all we ever get is the above message. We have tried 3 different 550W PS's, 12+ 40 & 80 conductor IDE cables, 2 Motherboards (same model), 7 HDDs 60 & 120 GB Western Digital & Maxtor HDDs singly, doubly, and triple. w & w/o The SONY DVD, Flashed CMOS to two different Rev.s from SuperMicro. Used HDD MFG. HDD tests w/o errors. at least 12 new installs of XP PRO (and DOS 6.22 on small partition (it gave a different error message, but it was "Couldn't Find" type.))We removed all the PCI cards w/o success. Tried MS "Recovery Module" to no avail. Scanned for Virus, etc. Usually McAfee catches a couple of w/32 Netsky's in email every morning after we turn on the PC which can't be cleaned - we just delete. Before this system we got tired of NORTON?SYMANTEC Virus, Firewall, Etc. but over the years, we found that Symantec sent tendrils all over the registry and the daily operation gave the feeling of system instability which we also find with MS OFFICE does the same thing. We do have MS OFFICE installed, but use LOTUS Suite which is more user friendly and does little in the REGISTRY. We have found three ways to boot into XP PRO. (1)(SLOPPY) Enter BIOS SETUP on power-up or restart, do nothing, Save & Exit - this is almost 100%, but UGH!!!; (2) Put a bootable CD into the SONY DVD. this will give a Message "Press any key tro boot from CD. . .". If we pres any ky we boot into the CD and what ever it is programmed to do. If we don't Press any key and wait the 5-10 seconds it takes to time out (Note: The HDD light flickers during this wait) Then It boots from the HDD,; (3) The easiest! Format a Floppy in XP PRO, copy the NTLDR, NTDETECT.com and th BOOT.INI from the drive that won't boot, leave it in the drive - works 100%. After the CD or Floppy, the CD or floppy are not needed unless we restart or Power-up. We found a small applet on the web as referenced in a MS article. NTLDR is never in the first sector - it is in the first cluster. When installing MS's "RECOVERY MODULE", a file "CMLDR is created in the first sector. We trie FIXMBR anmd FIXBOOT w/o success. The applet doesn't allow writing a drive (only reading) The first time we tried to run thre "RECOVERY MODULE" The HDD booted, but that may have been a fluke because it is still there. If we delete the Recovery Module, all we see from the first sector on is a bunch of directories in following sectors until sectors in the cluster followed by a few files (NTLDR towards the end of the first cluster and the "CMLDR" is gone from the first sector. Once booted, XP PRO runs perfectly as far as we can see. It seems that the only the MBR, NTLDR, NTDTECT.COM & boot.ini are necessary is at boot. I'm not positive of that?! Three things cpme to mind (1)A timing problem;(2)Something preventing NTLDR from being written into the First Sector;(3)Something in the MBR that is looking for a file with a name other than NTLDR and not finding it, says it cant find NTLDR; And maybe some wrong code in the MB CMOS. I have spent 40-50+ hours on the phone with MS SUPPORT, hours with Western Digital & Maxtor and tested their drives with their Test Programs w/o problems, SuperMicro - who d don't know their product very well. Supermicro now says to send them this system with all of its external gadgets: Keymoard, 240MB Floppy drive, Backup Drive, USB card reader, network and attached PC's. DSL MOdem, Mouse. I use this machine everyday and it would cost a small fortune just to pack up several PC's, Scanner, Hundreds of pounds for a couple of months with my daily used software, private info- they are nuts!!! I've been futzing with this for 4 months now. Anybody out there got any clever ideas? It maybe glitch in 2 revs of Supermicro CMOS BIOS, some sort of odd virus that nobody's discovered. The PC works, but needs crutches to start!!!!!
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I appreciate your looking at this. I did say that I've tried to get a properly booting system with 7 new HDDs. I have been using the Floppy boot disk which I picked up on early in the game. [ The Floppy boot disk is simply made by a Quick Format on My Computer - this puts the proper M<BR on the floppy. Then all you have to do is copy NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM, And the BOOT.INI from the drive or the problem Boot Partition. I have been doing some "FC"s these files from installation to instalattiomn and also from other PC's rubnning XP PRO. The only file-compare difference appears in the boot.ini.] On these drives, I have made 12+ complete installations of XP PRO. What interests me is that entering the BIOS SETUP, and exiting w/o doing anything will boot from the HDD. The BIOS for the Supermicro X5DPA-GG has quit a bunch of settings for every Primary/Secondary ... Master/ Slave devices. In the lkast 20myears that I have been building PC's I have had my share of oddities excep this one , and it is a whopper - at least I can run XP. Running it gives you the feeling that you haven't changed your cloths and showered in a month. I could try to list all the variables on the MB. I have not touched them. The manuals are down loadable on SuperMicro.com. I even took a HDD from another PC and it wouldn't get past the error message.
The only thing I havent done is take the SONY 'Do it all off the Secondary Master. Any one looking at the MB Manual may see a trick. By two biggest mysteries are 1) Why starting the BIOS SETUP and Exiting giv an innediate boot but not again unless the Setup is entered again, OR 2) I see the HDD light flicker when there is a bootable CD in the CD Drive and is it the time for for it to time out that the BIOS are getting through.
My first guess was a faulty MB, but after exactly the same issue with the second MB, a faulty "electronics" on the MB can probably be ruled out, but there is always the CMOS.
I also said that I tried the Recovery Console and tried FIXMBR and FIXBOOT. Boot rebuild looks too risky and there is not much documentation on it.
Oh Yes, I've taken the drives to tho olde MB and they boot far enough to get the BOOT.INI menu.
If there was anything wrong with the PC would have other problems, buyt once booted, the PC is great. If this was a spare PC, I might have considered sending it to SuperMicro, however, my experience with their tech support engineers, over the phone has not been full of intelligence.
I I've had everything off the IDE sockets except w/o any change, but I'll tru moving the CD to the Secondary slave or Primary slave.
If anz one knows the fub´nction of the BIOS HDD settings )except Default, let me know what can ge changed.
The only thing I havent done is take the SONY 'Do it all off the Secondary Master. Any one looking at the MB Manual may see a trick. By two biggest mysteries are 1) Why starting the BIOS SETUP and Exiting giv an innediate boot but not again unless the Setup is entered again, OR 2) I see the HDD light flicker when there is a bootable CD in the CD Drive and is it the time for for it to time out that the BIOS are getting through.
My first guess was a faulty MB, but after exactly the same issue with the second MB, a faulty "electronics" on the MB can probably be ruled out, but there is always the CMOS.
I also said that I tried the Recovery Console and tried FIXMBR and FIXBOOT. Boot rebuild looks too risky and there is not much documentation on it.
Oh Yes, I've taken the drives to tho olde MB and they boot far enough to get the BOOT.INI menu.
If there was anything wrong with the PC would have other problems, buyt once booted, the PC is great. If this was a spare PC, I might have considered sending it to SuperMicro, however, my experience with their tech support engineers, over the phone has not been full of intelligence.
I I've had everything off the IDE sockets except w/o any change, but I'll tru moving the CD to the Secondary slave or Primary slave.
If anz one knows the fub´nction of the BIOS HDD settings )except Default, let me know what can ge changed.
Dear Alec??tarr:
I'm sorry the text doesn't CR/LF like it does in thie box and
comes at you like notepad which holds 255 characters.
Yes, it was very easy to make a XP boot. "Format a floppy in MyComputer, copy NTLDR,NTDETECT.COM, and boot.ini" I did this from the exact drives with this error. That implies that there isn't anything that affects a floppy boot. This gets me into XP 100%.I also mentioned that if at Power-up or restart, I enter the BIOS Setup and exit, the HDDs will work ONCE. Reboot and Restart, you have to do the same thing over - SLOPPY, Also a 100% solution is to leave a bootable CD in the CD DRIVE. The screen will eventually print "Boot from CD - Press any key . . .
If you press any key, the PC boots into the CD - leaving this
message time out (5-10 seconds) then the HDDs boot.
I have tried "FIXBOOT" & "FIXMBR" to no avail.
I down loaded a free download called "Disk Investigator
V 1.31)" at www.theabsolute.net/sware. This little program shows what is where on the disk. NTLDR is in the first cluster, but not in the first sector. If "the "Recovery Module" is installed, NTLDR doesn't appear to move (and stays at the end ov the first cluster and "CMLDR" goes right into the first sector. This still gives the 'BOOT:.... message. If I delete
CMLDR, the first sector disappears or some directories move down to fill in tyhe blank.
Since I hadn't taken the MB out of the drive(s) tower, I put the drives which give the "BOOT:.." All worked perfectly.
The old MB was a Dual P3 w/1gb SDRAM. Model PT3DLE by Supermicro just as the new MB is a Supermicro X5DPA-GG w/ dual 3.066GHz Xeons + 2GB SDRAM (Infineon brand - do you have
any opinion about this brand?) The PC runhs perfectly when it boots and if the CPUs or the memory was a problem, I would guess that I'd have problems. I still get a gut feeling that a virus isn't a problem since the 'Going into the BIOS SETUP"
and CD time-down" do get the MBR, NTLDR, NTDETECT.com & BOOT.INI on the HDDs giving something enough time to find
NTLDR. It feel that there is some sort of timing problem.
The BIOS do have a numerous number settings (including some
for HDDs) Rather tha try to list them all, the manual (PDF?) can be downloaded from www.supermicro.com This has occurred
on TWO motherboards (same nodel) since it was possible that there may be a bad MB. I tried BIOS REV 1.07 and REV 1.1
with no change.
I have also tested the PS voltages during power-on and
trying to find NTLDR and saw no dips in voltage.
Maybe Supermicro may be able to fix this if I send the
whole system to them, but I cant spare the PC, nor would
the shipping be less than a small fortune. Adios for now.
I'll be here through 9/9 and back on 9/27.
I'm sorry the text doesn't CR/LF like it does in thie box and
comes at you like notepad which holds 255 characters.
Yes, it was very easy to make a XP boot. "Format a floppy in MyComputer, copy NTLDR,NTDETECT.COM, and boot.ini" I did this from the exact drives with this error. That implies that there isn't anything that affects a floppy boot. This gets me into XP 100%.I also mentioned that if at Power-up or restart, I enter the BIOS Setup and exit, the HDDs will work ONCE. Reboot and Restart, you have to do the same thing over - SLOPPY, Also a 100% solution is to leave a bootable CD in the CD DRIVE. The screen will eventually print "Boot from CD - Press any key . . .
If you press any key, the PC boots into the CD - leaving this
message time out (5-10 seconds) then the HDDs boot.
I have tried "FIXBOOT" & "FIXMBR" to no avail.
I down loaded a free download called "Disk Investigator
V 1.31)" at www.theabsolute.net/sware. This little program shows what is where on the disk. NTLDR is in the first cluster, but not in the first sector. If "the "Recovery Module" is installed, NTLDR doesn't appear to move (and stays at the end ov the first cluster and "CMLDR" goes right into the first sector. This still gives the 'BOOT:.... message. If I delete
CMLDR, the first sector disappears or some directories move down to fill in tyhe blank.
Since I hadn't taken the MB out of the drive(s) tower, I put the drives which give the "BOOT:.." All worked perfectly.
The old MB was a Dual P3 w/1gb SDRAM. Model PT3DLE by Supermicro just as the new MB is a Supermicro X5DPA-GG w/ dual 3.066GHz Xeons + 2GB SDRAM (Infineon brand - do you have
any opinion about this brand?) The PC runhs perfectly when it boots and if the CPUs or the memory was a problem, I would guess that I'd have problems. I still get a gut feeling that a virus isn't a problem since the 'Going into the BIOS SETUP"
and CD time-down" do get the MBR, NTLDR, NTDETECT.com & BOOT.INI on the HDDs giving something enough time to find
NTLDR. It feel that there is some sort of timing problem.
The BIOS do have a numerous number settings (including some
for HDDs) Rather tha try to list them all, the manual (PDF?) can be downloaded from www.supermicro.com This has occurred
on TWO motherboards (same nodel) since it was possible that there may be a bad MB. I tried BIOS REV 1.07 and REV 1.1
with no change.
I have also tested the PS voltages during power-on and
trying to find NTLDR and saw no dips in voltage.
Maybe Supermicro may be able to fix this if I send the
whole system to them, but I cant spare the PC, nor would
the shipping be less than a small fortune. Adios for now.
I'll be here through 9/9 and back on 9/27.
Sorry, but that was tough to follow so if you tried this, again I'm sorry.
Quote:Swapped out MB , P3's & SDRAM. Substituted Supermicro Dual 3.066GHz XEON's w/2gb (per spec) SDRAM
I swapped out my mobo that had a VIA chipset for one with a Sis chipset. I had similar problems. I ran the XP install CD, chose the repair option, and it was working. Granted this is very risky if you have existing data, but it might be your only choice. In my case, the workarounds you mentioned did not help me.
Hmm, after another read of your post, what does Disk admin say when you open it? (after using one of your workarounds)
Does it give any errors, allow you to change drive letters, etc?
-Ry.
Quote:Swapped out MB , P3's & SDRAM. Substituted Supermicro Dual 3.066GHz XEON's w/2gb (per spec) SDRAM
I swapped out my mobo that had a VIA chipset for one with a Sis chipset. I had similar problems. I ran the XP install CD, chose the repair option, and it was working. Granted this is very risky if you have existing data, but it might be your only choice. In my case, the workarounds you mentioned did not help me.
Hmm, after another read of your post, what does Disk admin say when you open it? (after using one of your workarounds)
Does it give any errors, allow you to change drive letters, etc?
-Ry.
