You know i expect that from mindless drones like yourself ...your the same type of person that will watch the debates and actually believe what you hear.. You say your getting 100 FPS in Quake3 ....so can I at 640x480 I'm referring to 1024x768 maxed out 32 bit color. Keep buying Intel chips they need people like you...while truly intelligent people don't believe the marketing BS that they produce. I've owned many INTEL chips and I'm sure I"ve built many more than you have and I can say without a doubt that as of right now AMD has a better chip..not to mention faster. My T-Bird will smack your POS off The fu#$ing planet. We can keep talking smack lets settle this on some Q3 Dm. See if your as pathetic as you make yourself out to be
www.yourmom.com
 
 
FEWL

I will concede that AMD K6-2,K6-3 sucked hardcore ass. I hated the chips the MOBO and everthing related too. I also used to buy 3dfx only products.. Now things have changed and I call it like I see it. 3dfx sucks so does Intel..so does Gore but I'm not going there..have a hard time defending myself on the other issues . BTW I'm flaming Intel not on their products for the most part but the way they do business. I still have my celeron 300A and love it. It's when I have had to explain to customers that Intel has recalled MOBO's or you can't order that CPU yet not for 8 more months...**** like that start to wear thin..especially the paper releases....of which i cannot order...anyway...FU@K Intel...they expect brand loyalty..which they are getting from some of you but fu#k you everytime they can..
 
www.yourmom.com
 
 
FEWLS

I hear what you are saying, but the KB on the C64 was vastly superior to the rubbery speccy one.

Now you're sounding less like an ass, and more like a guy with an informed opinion.
 
I won't deny that Intel's business practices are lacking(recalls), and their losing the CPU race...
 
AMD makes a great chip. Fast, cheap, and a pleasure to have in most systems. Most of the students with new PCS have AMDs. The guy I mentioned in the next room? there are 3 or 4 AMD CPU systems over there, and only 1 Intel. He's had good luck with his system.
 
I had crashes all the time(VIA and nvidia in W2K bad for everyone not keeping score)...so I regretlessly went intel.
 
(Released) Intel CPUs can't be beaten as far as stability goes...no matter what is said(ignoring the 1.13ghz chips )
 
There is one race that AMD is lacking behind in, and that's the SMP support.
 
Granted, AMD is releasing an SMP chipset, which might be great...but in that Arena, (as well as the Q3 Arena) intel wins hands down(if only for experience and compatibility). AMD will have 1 chipset to play with, while intel has several chipsets to choose from(440, SIS, 840, etc.)
 
 
Rambus can kiss my ass. Mushkin PC133 Rev2 will surpass anything RAMBUS.
 
Oh..and as for voting...I'll pencil in Jesse Ventura...and if I can't do that, I'll just go for Bush.
It's either an idiot, or someone tarnished by 8 years of Clinton.
 
Either way, these next 4 years will suck ass.

My vote is Nader. Bush sucks and Gore "invented the Internet."
 
If i had to choose a processor right now I would most certianly choose a T-Bird. They are fast and cheap and they are good for more than just games. I built a computer on an Asus A7V with a 950 and it cranks auto cad 2k and photoshop. It has no stability problems in win 2k. So I would have to go with that. However I have a p3 right now and I am quite pleased with its performance. Unfortunatly Intel sucks and they rip you off and that is another reason to get amd.
 
 
------------------
My System
Dell Demension XPS T500
Dual Boot
Windows 2000 Pro 2195
Windows Millennium Final
PIII @ 500 Mhz (with after market heatsink and dual fan)
256 Megs Ram
TNT2 Ultra Graphics Card
Matrox Millennium PCI (for second monitor)
3Com 10/100 Ethernet Card
3Com 56k Modem
12.6 Gig IBM HD
40X CD Rom Drive
100 Mb Zip Drive
MS Explorer Mouse
MS Natural Keyboard Pro

sapiens26,
 
HAHAHAHAHA!!! Quake III????? You want a challenge on Quake III???? That game is a POFS. It's only good for ONE thing. Real World Game Benchmarks. The REAL gamers quit playing that pathetic game a while back and started palying Counter-Strike. If you think you are ready to take on one of the best, then bring it. OH and by the way, I get 96 fps (QIII) on my MAIN machine. Genuine INTEL 733 and Geforce 2 GTS, with all the high quality stuff on you are talking about. I don't think your little T-bird can keep up unless it is over a gig.

What the heck is this **** all about? war between Intel and AMD?? i mean you cant come to me and tell me right in the eyes that AMD is a good cpu...you know and i know that AMD has ALWAYS HAD PROBLEMS!! and i mean always...i got at least 16 buddies that run amd and 4 of those had LUCK and got their machines to work prefectly, thats good coz if you whant something cheap and fast go for AMD but know this, there is a 70% risk that your AMD machine WILL NOT FUNCTION! and if you buy intel you will have to pay more but will have a 100% WORKING MACHINE!...thats just the way it is. There are to many ppl today having problem with their AMD to say that AMD rocks.....it just doesnt...yet...
 
/Silent

Counterstrike is beneath my machine and no Q3 then fine how bout some UT since you dont like that benchmarking program.. As to the AMD detractors saying that INTEL is 100% stable...tell that to all the CC820 board owners out there or the ones who bought the 1.13 GH chip..or maybe to Dell who had to delay release of P4.. lest we forget INtel recalled the orignal pentium chip cause of problems.. You take an AMD on a good brand name MOBO and install the drivers like your supposed too thy are rock solid stable..If they arent your not doing it right...Btw working in retail i can tell you the number one problem when putting a system together.....customers allways come off with "My buddy said" or "My buddy does"
 
F#$k your buddy he don't know SH@T do it the right way.
 
www.yourmom.com
 
 
FEWLS

Most of the people here know how to do it properly
 
And there are times when it just won't work. PERIOD.
 
My AMD experience was that way, and I KNOW how to build a system. I've done it many many times, and the AMD system was the only one EVER that has caused me problems. This goes from my old 386, to my 486, to the p1 100, to a PIII 500, Athlon 750, and PIII 800eb.
 
And those are just MY MACHINES.
 
I've redone about 20 other different computers as well, all of which were intel based however.
 
the AMD was the only problematic system...so what does this make me feel?
 
 
Intel may have bad issues such as the MTH, the 1.13 ghz..
 
But...overall (around this campus and with all the PCs I've dealt with) there are SIGNIFICANTLY fewer problems with intel cpu systems than with AMD.
 
 
CS is beneath your system? BS. The better the system, the more reason to play CS.
 
as for UT...screw it. It was built poorly, and doesn't take full advantage of a video card. It's sad that a PIII 600 with a Voodoo3 and a PIII 800 with a GeFOrce post similar FPS...
 
Take that into Quake3, where a video card gets used....and you notice a difference.
 
Halflife/Counterstrike maxes out for most people around 60 fps, due to the Zbuffer if I'm not mistaken...so the faster and better the video card and cpu, not always the better.
 
Just let it go.
People buy what they buy for their own reasons.
 
I bought an AMD becuase I wanted to.
I bought an Intel because the AMD made me have to.
 
A guys gotta do what a guys gotta do.
 
And my money will go to Intel and Mushkin until I feel that AMD will suit my needs and not crash.
 
 
------------------
NECESSARY EVIL
--Custom Built PC--
<Windows 2000 Advanced Server SP1>
Intel Pentium III Coppermine(FCPGA 370) 800eb @ 954 (with ThermalTake Golden Orb heatsink)
Asus CUSL2 motherboard(no onboard sound)Rev 1.02 BIOS rev 1003.004 Beta
256MB PC133 SDRAM (1x256 Mushkin Rev2 CAS 2:2:2)
SuperMicro 760A Full Tower(Modded for more fans and Painted Rustoleum Hammered Black)
SP301-RA 300W Athlon Approved Redundant Cooling Power Supply
IBM15-7 15GB UDMA/100 7200RPM hdd & 30GB MAXTOR Diamand Max UDMA/66 7200 RPM hdd
7 80mm,3 92mm, and 2 120mm High Output fans(along with 2 80mm in Power Supply, CPU, and GeForce fans) spewing out well over 1000 CFM
Creative Labs SB Live! X-Gamer running on Liveware 3
Creative Labs Graphics Blaster Annhilator Pro GeForce256 DDR on Detonator 6.34
Logitech Itouch Pro Wireless Ergonomic Keyboard
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer(Gen 1) & Everglide (HL Giganta)
Logitech Soundman G1 Powered Speakers & AIWA HPX222 Headphones
D-Link DFE-530TX+ Ethernet Adapter
Compaq V720 17” (1280x1024) Monitor
Hewlett Packard 660Cse Printer
Memorex 4x2x24 CD-RW & Pioneer 6x DVD/ 32x CD-ROM
Hauppauge WinTV Go

sapiens26,
 
You are such a joker. Counter-Strike beneath your machine???....Yeah right, Half-Life engine still roXXors....That's why more people make MODS with it then ANY other engine....and as far as gaming is concerned..there is more people playing CS then any of the others COMBINED!! If that doesn't speak for itself then what the F**K does. There's not a game out there that has the physics as nicely done as CS...So nice that it is going to be commercially released in December....UT?? what a cartoon that game is, no real-world weapons, no real-world physics (not to say that every single 'physics' in CS is real-world either, but it is the best balanced)...soooooo, when you want to get a grip and get a clue you come find the SEAL...and for the rest of you that don't play CS, your missing out on the biggest Tidal wave of gaming ever.

led- half-life uses a modified quake 2 engine. and as far as physics go, well Thief was pretty good if i remember correctly, and Daytona USA or sega rally, cant remember which was real good for it's time....
 
i play quake, ut, and half-life. i think TFC is probably my favorite mod, though i play alot of CS and CCTF for q3 as well. i just wish that UT wasn't made for glide. in fact i wish glide would die off, so that we could get some more benchmarks that arent video card biased.
 
i benchmark 85 FPS in q3 w/ normal setttings, and with 32 bit color i get only 7 or 8 frames below that. which i dont think is bad since it's on a tnt2u, and a system with only 128 megs pc100 memory. i have a t-bird 800 btw.
 
i have had AMD chips since my 486 dx4-100 and havent had any problems. well my last one i had an MVP3 board and so i had to remove all the cards except video to install Win2k. but they have all been stable.
 
the unstable systems come from people with bad mobos or bad chipsets.
 
if they would just buy an Asus or Abit board they wouldnt have these problems. my computer runs just fine, except in UT, which i think is because the install got screwed up. but i can play other games forever and they do just fine...
 
sapien- i was agreeing with you until you started disrespecting half-life. :-/ half-life's the best shooter i have ever played, and CS is the best mod i have ever played that wasn't developed by the same people who made the game. it's not below anyone's system.

I know what the half-life engine is. And as far as physics in Counter-Strike are concerned, it's way different then Half-Life, or any other game for that matter. That is all.

i'm throwing my hat in....I had....
 
1 intel processor back in 1994
Intel 486 DX2 at 66 Mhz...pretty good computer, it runs fast for it's speed....I didn't have to pay for it...
 
Got a 400 Mhz AMD K6-2, well, I was in heaven because it's awesome compared to my 486...
 
Got Athlon 550....loving it....boot time is fast, games are running great...and the processor is cheap in price....
 
Friend has P3 motherboard, same cache, bus, etc. I slap my hardware on it....muns like crap compared to my Athlon 550....he is running Pentium 600...so i'm like, what's the deal here? If I want Pentium, I have to pay almost 1/3 more in cost for less performance? what kind of crap is that...
 
Celeron 2 comes out, my friend switches to it, dumb move...Celeron 2 is slower than his P3, same speeds on it too....muns slower than his P3 and my Athlon....so i'm like...hmm, overclock it. So he does...muns better. better than his P3 did, but didn't beat my Athlon still...so he tells me "I shouldn't have bought this POS Celeron 2...I should have known back in the day when my Pentium 150 was running better than my school's Celeron 300 systems"....we both laughed...he sold off his whole computer, bought Athlon and said "Wow, now this is speed".....and I finished off by saying "Pentium is really only good as a dual or quad processor, etc. but a single Pentium chip ain't good enough"
 
My conclusion is you pay too much for too little in return with Intel, but they are damn good processors for compatibility and dual, quad, etc. As a single processor, Athlon wins. But yet Dual Athlons are coming out soon.....maybe the future holds yet another one of these dark and twisted tales....
 
[This message has been edited by jdulmage (edited 19 October 2000).]

Anyone that thinks celeron 2 is faster than duron is just plain wrong. Instead of just giving my opinion, ill just give you some factual information / benchmarks so you can stfu and get over it.
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/reviews/cpu/duron_750/5.shtml and onwards,duron clearly winning in each situation, for games(check page 9, can you say+20fps for the same speed duron?), office applications and whatever.
 
Or how about.. http://www.planethardware.com/features/cpu/Celeron700/index5.shtml onwards, duron clearly winning there too..
 
You could argue that celerons overclock a lot, but even a overclocked celeron, a even mhz duron prolly isnt far off at the original clock of the celeron .. but then you could just overclock the duron too, which people have been doing very successfully..
 
such as: http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/articles/duron_vs_celeron_oc/
 
so overclocked durons are even faster..wow
 
So, the bottom line is, if your celeron is outperforming your athlon, or your duron, or your p3, or whatever, then somethings BROKEN, mis-configured, not working properly or just plain wrong.
 
Those are the facts, have a nice day.
 
 
 
[This message has been edited by wind (edited 19 October 2000).]

First of all I made the HALF-LIFE joke in jest....it's the best single=player game of all=time and CS is ok just not my taste. Tastes in games is way to subjective.....Hell i still paly DIGDUG on mame cause i like too.....we talking about a how a company misleads and bullies their way to selling products making you believe theirs are the best
 
FU@K INTEL
www.yourmom.com
 
 
FEWLS

hmmm....how big is the difference between AMD and INTEL in performance? like 1% or 2% or even 3% at most...well geeeeee...what a fu@cking difference...**** i gotta get my self a AMD so i can get cheap on my @ss and MAYBE get it working. Get the fûck of my case boy and girls...stop flaming all over the place and if you like INTEL, BUY IT. it you dont fûck it! IF you like AMD, BUY it if not eat it.....now go help someone with a NT problem and dont flame about what you think and dont like.... :=)

Actually, the difference is quite a bit higher than 1, 2, 3%. In ZD WinBench 99 CPUmark the 700mhz duron is about 25% faster than the 700mhz celeron. Also in other things they are ranging from 10-30% faster. So, it seems that durons are 10-30% faster than celerons in everything. Not to mention their a cheaper chip, and also overclock as well as celerons if thats your liking. So duron is better.
 
 
[This message has been edited by wind (edited 19 October 2000).]

the athlon FPU is also 33% faster than the coppermine.

OMG, You people need to get a grip, get a clue. There is NOT ONE PC faster than an INTEL Coppermine with a 440 BX Motherboard running at 133 MHz FSB. Who cares about those stupid synthetic FPU benchmarks, they are all misleading. AMD has you people brainwashed, I just buy whatever I think is the best solution at the time and the simplest. PERIOD. If that means AMD, then fine, but right now they don't have a better solution then 440 BX@133 and coppermine.
 
All of you get a grip, get a clue.

I think I'll overclock my WinChip this weekend. Maybe I can get it to 333.3333333333MHz, if I get lucky maybe to 333.3333333334MHz. That should really make a difference. Maybe I'll also swap that AMI BIOS for an 815i. If things work out I'll retrofit the whole rig with RDRAM, swap in some optical interlinks for the now wholly outdated 80-pin SCSI cable. The whole thing will become a FreeNet server, backed up by my OC192, which should come back from repairs this weekend (at least that’s what RadioShack promised). The following weekend I'll set up two motherboards in SLI mode--double performance for triple the price, I always say.
 
Remember, the squeaky oil gets the wheel.