I second that comment

Your car analogy is seriously flawed. I am not advocating piracy but that analogy is wrong.
 
Let's assume for a moment that you have a machine that can duplicate anything that you wanted(I.E. a computer). Let's say your rich friend just bought a brand new Dodge Viper. You could never afford that Dodge Viper. But what if you made a copy of that Dodge Viper with your machine, just for the hell of it? Technically, Dodge has lost no money on the car because they don't even know that you copied it, and second you technically aren't even able to buy that car in the first place because you don't have enough money to afford it. You aren't stealing because Dodge has lost nothing. Again..I am not advocating piracy but I do understand their point of view. I have downloaded software before to see if I wanted to buy it. There is no way I'm going out and spending $250 bucks of my hard earned money out of faith that the software is good. Most stores have a No return policy on opened software. If I didn't like it, I would be out $250 now wouldn't I?

And you can usually take a car for a test drive...

So it isn't like stealing a car,,ok. It is software and the OS isn't shareware, where you try and buy. You buy it, that is the way it goes and if you don't like that then you buy something else or don't or whatever. Anything else is illegal and that is the way it is right now. You want to change it then set about doing something to change the system until then this is what it is.
 
As far as helping people on this board, it isn't like you go about saying ,," hey did you buy that software?" and then help them by whatever is the response. I understand this, we are just here to help regarding the OS. Now if you offer information regarding piracy this is where the discussion on how that isn't exactly ethical comes into play. I don't know but if I developed a piece of software and no one payed for it, that would suck and I would be upset.
 
Let's say you could clone a copy of a Dodge Viper off your computer, why would anyone else buy a Dodge Viper if they could copy the copy of their buddies Viper,, putting Dodge Viper out of business because they couldn't make any money off the car. No next years model,,etc etc.
 
If you can't obtain the software legally then you shouldn't have it.
 
 

Take the car comparison another step further.
 
If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be
driving cars with the following characteristics:-
 
1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
 
2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to
buy a new car.
 
3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You
would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the car
windows, shut it off, restart it, and reopen the windows before you
could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.
 
4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause
your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would
have to reinstall the engine.
 
5. Only one person at a time could use the car unless you bought
"CarNT", but then you would have to buy more seats.
 
6. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would only run on five percent of the roads.
 
7. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all
be replaced by a single "General Protection Fault" warning light.
 
8. New seats would force everyone to have the same sized butt.
 
9. The airbag system would ask "are you SURE?" before deploying.
 
10. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door
handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
 
11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of
Rand McNally road maps (now a GM subsidiary), even though they neither
need nor want them. Attempting to delete this option would immediately
cause the car's performance to diminish by 50% or more. Moreover, GM
would become a target for investigation by the Justice Dept.
 
12. Every time GM introduced a new car, car buyers would have to learn
to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in
the same manner as the old car.
 
13. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.

thanks , I needed the laugh:D

I don't know about you guys, but my money doesn't grow on trees. I'm a college student and cash is very tight for me. If I'm going to spend $250 on a piece of software I had better be damned sure I'm going to keep it and use it, which is where demos come in. Would you buy a car without test driving it? Would you buy one based on the color of the paint? This is what software companies are essentially doing when they dont offer trial programs. If companies truly put effort into their software and are proud of their work, they would offer demo versions of them. I believe when a company doesn't offer a free trial of software it reflects on them poorly.
 
99% of the population doesn't know how to pirate software and buy their software legit, nor do they want to know how to pirate software. I'm sure everyone can agree that a try before you buy, especially with items that are hard to return, is necessary.
 
I am not saying piracy is OK at all, but whenever I see that poor car analogy used I must correct it.

Anak1, looking at your sig line almost made me think it was mine, as I got a VP6 and the 800EB's myself.
 
College student here myself, and I'll be dammed if I have to buy a copy of XP Pro, even the upgrade's to XP Pro are $200, for both my machines.
Plus, MS seems to be biting the hand that feeds. They are nothing without customers, and if you piss off enough customers, you are in deep shhhhhhhh...
I'm sorry, but we use NetBEUI here at home, and I keep hearing to change it, but I am not in control of the network settings. My dad is, and I can't go without NetBEUI for now.
I also don't care to have to reactivate after I've reached a quota for hardware upgrades, especially since I would buy my copy of XP from the store.
 
Basically, XP is great except for those two issues. NetBEUI included on the RC1 cd is okay, but not great.
I will buy my copy and crack it, just to prove it is do-able. It's been done so far, and MS is stupid to not realize this.
XP is great, no doubt, but I feel that MS doesn't trust us alone with a computer. Fine, two can play hardball on this.

The current arguments seem to be related to people wanting to try the software before they buy it. Fair enough, I can understand that. Do you know that MS offers a fully functioning 120 day evaluation copy of most of the their products? This will no doubt include XP when it is released.
 
You can then have 3 months to decide on whether the OS is the right one for you or not. If it is, then go out and buy it. If not, delete it and re-install your previous OS.
 
I know different companies have different stances on demo/trial software, but MS seem fairly reasonable about it, and we were meant to be discussing their software.

yea, and you gotta pay for that too!!!! w4r3z costs nothing.

So your basic argument is:
 
I want software, don't wanna pay for it.
 
No wonder companies have to keep coming up with new ways to try and protect their software.

Ummm, your a student.
MS offer student editions of all MS products for somewhere in the region of 50-60% off the retail versions.
 
Yes, you can 'Test Drive' the product, that is what the 120 day evaluation copy will be for, which will be released at around the same time as the OEM versions of the OS.
These are usually free (I had access to hundreds of the Win2k ones and not a single one cost me a penny).
 
For gods sake, how many of you actually know how PA actually works?
I keep on seeing the same old crap, why should I be limited on the amount of hardware upgrades I make.....
You wont be, if you re-install your OS every month then you'll never activate it anyway.
Simple hardware changes do not trigger re-activation (From personal tests, not the crap printed on CNET, I have replaced a MB, Upgraded RAM, Replaced Video card and installed CD-RW drive all in one go without triggering activation).
In addition it's a timed issue, so any hardware changes made within a certain amount of time (no matter how drastic) don't trigger re-activation.
 
Going back to the post attempting to tear apart my, certainly in my eyes rather spot on, rather too close for comfort for some people, car analogy:
No, because if I can't afford the Dodge Viper, why should I feel that I deserve it?
If I haven't got the money then I wouldn't even think about owning it because, "copying it" is theft, why would I want to be a criminal?
I can't afford a new DVD player, so I can go into a high-street store and just take one right?
Why do you feel that you should be able to own something that you can't afford to buy, your bordering on communism here.
 
I don't understand how you can justify theft.
If you justify the theft of software and Intellectual Property why does it have to end there?
There is no difference in theft, theft is theft, if it's a piece of software or a car from a showroom forecourt you are still taking something that doesn't belong to you something you have no rights to take.
 
Going back even further in the thread, in the past I've never asked anybody "So, is that software legit?" it hasn't mattered.
However I can't believe that the mods of what is considered by a lot of people to be a professional board allow discussion on hacking, warze and criminal activities - I know of no other baord where messages like that would be allowed to stand (When I say no other board I mean of the supposed standard of this one).
The mods allow discussion of:
 
Hacking OS's
Hacking Office Products
In some cases actually advocating such activities.
In the past, such postings as "How do I get Quake 3 to run on Win2k Advanced Server" have obviously been posted by thieves (Waits for the follow up replies, but if you're running Win2k AS it's either as a serious server or stolen for home use).
Other posts along the lines of "Installed Office2k SR2 and now it wont function" again the posts in question were from thieves as that's what SR2 was designed to do - de-activate known compromised keys & hacks.
 
Then, half of you sit back and tell us how nasty MS are, and how evil they are, and how the .net idea and subscription based software is so very bad.
Why?
Because suddenly you'll find that you actually have to pay for something?
Even if it cost an arm and a leg to rent the next OS all you'd be doing (over the fullness of time) would be paying for the software you've all stolen in the past.

As a "mod", I am more concerned with people flaming each other for no reason. That's it. As for filtering through the hacking and w4rez posts, I don't see that as an issue. Sure, I was irritated by seeing people asking "How do I get my Win2K Adv Server to host Counter-Strike?" when it was clearly obvious that they didn't get it legally. But here's the issue; who cares? Some of the people that *clearly* advocate piracy have also been helpful to others on this board, and I see no reason to censor their discussions. Am I to say "Hey, there is no way that you could have 2 legally licensed copies of Win2K Adv Server in your trailer! Are you running a meth lab to cover the costs of your licensing? If not, then we don't want to hear from you, no matter what you have to say!" when someone is responding to a question about IIS? That seems somewhat unrealistic, and time consuming. How are we to determine who is legit and who isn't?
 
I realize that the topic "Disabling Product Activation" can be considered a clear and intentional request for stealing software. But I consider it a valid topic, since product activation of any type is very irritating. In our office, we have an open licensing agreement, which gives us a CD Key for OfficeXP that never needs activation. However, many people who do have this software legally do not have that option, and like me do not feel that they should go to MS asking "Mother may I?" to get the software activated again. Once I feel that Office XP is stable, I intend to disable PA on my home system, even though I have a legal copy. The whole concept just flat pi$$es me off to no end, and I don't feel that I am alone.
 
One more thing, there seems to be some clear confusion as to who is losing money with software piracy in general. Well, it would have to be anybody who wrote and/or published the software as the software is being used without it being payed for. Now, here's the catch. You see these people that have Win2K Adv Server in here right? And you know damned well the vast majority of them could not have it legally. However, they never could anyway, so it's a net loss of zero to the software owners. Yet, many of these same people wind up learning from the product, and get entry level positions at companies working with it even more (or they request the software and their respective companies purchase it, hence a new sale). That's why I don't really care that much about it. Same thing with MP3s. I have downloaded from bear-share mp3s that I did not have the license for, so I could find a specific song. Once I did, I would pick up the CD if I liked it. Otherwise, the track is just taking up space on my harddrive that I could be using for pirated software until my meth lab starts getting profitable again...

*Sigh*
Then I guess I can't hold as much reagard for the site as I once did or as I do for others.
 
I know that will mean nothing to you, to be honest you wont care, what's one person's opinion against the face of many others?
 
There is a time and a place for discussing warze & the theft of computer software and I really don't see how it should be on a professional site.
Sure, a general discussion on the subject usually goes down well, but to not only advocate the theft of software but to allow posts that are an obvious discussion of hacking/warze is just so really very sad.
 
I'm afraid your "Lets justify the theft of software by saying nobody is loosing any money" is a very typical response.
That isn't the point, and you all know it.
The statement I keep using and that nobody can counter is "It doesn't matter if nobody is loosing money, it doesn't matter if it's a 'faceless' corporation your stealing from, the simply fact is - Why do people feel that they have every right to own something they haven't paid for?"
 
I shall continue to preach what I practice and I know it will fall mainly on deaf ears.
However, in 12-18 months time, once subscription based OS's and Office Products are normal and you are all posting how this 'Suxs' & 'How stupid it all is' I'll then be able to remind you that you are part of why it happened.

You just don't get it, do you? Subscription-based software has been out and over-ridden for quite a long time now, and those publishers are only kidding themselves as to its ability to counter true piracy (not just "casual copying"). Also, as there may be a time and a place for discussing w4rez and general computer crap (I always thought this place was fine, but I didn't realize it was such a hang up for you), as there is too a time and place for being a martyr to the "cause". A frankly, a message board that has post from persons talking about game and hardware compatibility interlaced with topics of marijuana usage doesn't seem to be it.
 
Most people have been quite cordial to each other, and very informative. But dude, stop harshing the buzz.

To me it seems like I am claiming backpay from microsoft for Beta testing thier software but they don't actually pay me to do it.
Our feedback contributes to the refinement of thier product, often leading to increased sales due to HAPPIER consumers.
We all remember the Shutdown bug in 98SE.
With all the possible PC configurations in the world Beta testing becomes increasingly important but I still have to pay for it. Yes I did pay for my RC1 preview cd but hate the PA.
In Australia lots of people STILL don't have internet access and to be put on hold by Microsoft whilst incurring long distance call charges, just to activate windows is wrong.
In effect they are encouraging the cracking of thier product.
I think they are simply too arrogant to back down.
 
As for this vile,shameful message board run by thieving moderators I say this - I thought America was all about Freedom of Speech......Correct me if I am wrong.

A few points I'd like to raise:
 

Quote:to allow posts that are an obvious discussion of hacking/warze is just so really very sad 
Okay, so what was this whole post about exactly? Let's see...
 

Quote:How can I remove it from Startup I mean , so that it doesn't remind me of activating again and again. 
So what he wants is to remove the REMINDERS that pop up when you start up telling you to activate, not remove the requirement to activate altogether. Okay, but why not just activate it? Well take this quote from yourself:
 

Quote:I keep on seeing the same old crap, why should I be limited on the amount of hardware upgrades I make..... You wont be, if you re-install your OS every month then you'll never activate it anyway
 
So you are suggesting here that to stop yourself being limited in the number of hardware upgrades you can do that you don't activate your copy of Windows. Doing this results in pop-up reminders telling you to activate which is what this whole thread was about (the circle is now complete ). To the best of my knowledge there's nothing illegal or immoral or license-agreement breaking about the topic of this thread. True, some of the later discussion is somewhat less than legal but the point is this thread had a genuine purpose for someone with a genuine problem with a genuine Microsoft product (anyone want to try fitting the word genuine more times into a sentence? )
 

Quote:MS offer student editions of all MS products for somewhere in the region of 50-60% off the retail versions 
And how many students actually KNOW about this? They don't exactly advertise the fact do they? Go to your local PCWorld to buy a copy of Windows and they don't say "oh, you're a student so this'll cost only 40% of the marked price". You have to get it direct from Microsoft AFAIK and most students that I know don't know a damn thing about it. I only found out a few months ago when someone mentioned it on these boards.
 

Quote:Do you know that MS offers a fully functioning 120 day evaluation copy of most of the their products? 
Yes, and yes they DO charge you money to try most of these 'demos'. Non-refundable I might add, just like everything else. Try before you buy is good, but I'd rather not have to pay to try in the first place.
 
Of course if it wasn't for the fact the MS products are so grossly overpriced, most of us wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Well it's the last post I'm going to put into the thread.
So, now will be the time for you to get the "final word" in, no matter what else is said in it I simply shall not post.
I know that'll make a lot of ya happy anyway, because lets be honest, nobody likes to be told that what they are doing or advocating is wrong.
So, how shall I end my last post into this thread?
Well, I could turn around and call you all a bunch of thieves, but that's not the way of doing it and would be all rather pathetic.
 
I shall just end it another way.
Carry on the way you are, however a lot of you seem to accept morals and the "laws of the land" when it suits you - selective choice of what to obey and what not to.
I'm sure if any of you woke up one morning to find your beloved car missing from your drive you'd have something to say about thieves in general, but for some reason you don't categorise the two as the same - in my book theft is theft.
I also urge you all to continue to "justify" what you are doing, the "Nobody looses money" & "But it's too expensive to buy" and all of that, keep on justifying it to yourself - doesn't seem so bad then eh?
You know, when I was a kid, I remember copying some code for an old Sinclair ZX81 via an audio tape so a friend of mine wouldn't have to pay the £5 to get a copy - then I grew out of it and stopped, maybe that will happen here too.
Then to really finish, some food for thought I guess.
Where do you think the original 'hack' of an OS etc comes from?
Remember there has to be a copy 0, where it all started etc.
Hacking of commercial software is big business, some people and some 'organisations' do it just for the money it will make them - in a lot of cases these are the same 'organisations' invloved in drugs, extortion & prostitution - sound a little far fetched?
Well it isn't.
It's all about supply & demand, as long as people want it then it will appear, but eventually it will be stopped.
If we look at certain types of ****ography from around the world, 95% of the world agrees it should be halted, and low & behold something gets done about it, prison sentances become larger for those dealing in it and, if the papers are to be believed, the actual trade in it has dropped some 75%.
The same will happen with piracy, it will be stopped.
 
So there ya go, I've finished with the thread, as I said at the top I wont post anything else in to it - you've won! Pirates are great, free commercial software for all!
 
Oh, and on a side note - The 120 day evaluation copies are free.
You just phone up MS, tell them you are interested in moving your home PC/workstations/servers over to whichever OS you want an evaluation for.
They then send you the CD's free of charge.
Actually, maybe I'm not being 100% truthfull, maybe you had to pay for postage, but you certainly weren't charged for the eval version - I don't think I would have paid for 4 copies (which is the number of Win2k Pro & Server ones I have).

Quote:
i am buying XP Pro eventually, when that time comes, i'll install and and crack it, i care nothing about WPA nor do i see a point in Activating it.

As i said on Page 2, i AM going to buy it, then i'm gonna activate it once then crack it for all of my other installs. Perhaps next time you should start at Page 1 and read every post