GeForce MX4000 problems on NT4.0
I am replacing a failing 8MB PCI video card on an old NT system. So in a nutshell, I was looking for a very low-end PCI card that is NT compatible. The MX4000 64MB is the closest match I could find locally.
I am replacing a failing 8MB PCI video card on an old NT system. So in a nutshell, I was looking for a very low-end PCI card that is NT compatible. The MX4000 64MB is the closest match I could find locally.
When I initially swapped the cards, NT used the default VGA drivers (as expected). I then installed the driver that came with the card, and restarted the system.
NT startup gets to the "build" screen (showing # of CPUs & memory, and with the 4 dots ....), but it hangs there. I get a funny little ASCI "smiley face" up in the top left corner, covering the first letter of the "build" message. There's no system activity at that point (with that card & drivers).
I called the MFG support - no help...
I have tried a couple of other driver versions - no luck...
I have verified no on-board video...
I have completely uninstalled the drivers between tries...
I'm guessing the card is okay, and that it's an issue with either the drivers or my PCs available resources.
Any suggestions for a fix on this would be greatly appreciated.
[Edited by michaelh on 2005-12-21 01:25:49]
When I initially swapped the cards, NT used the default VGA drivers (as expected). I then installed the driver that came with the card, and restarted the system.
NT startup gets to the "build" screen (showing # of CPUs & memory, and with the 4 dots ....), but it hangs there. I get a funny little ASCI "smiley face" up in the top left corner, covering the first letter of the "build" message. There's no system activity at that point (with that card & drivers).
I called the MFG support - no help...
I have tried a couple of other driver versions - no luck...
I have verified no on-board video...
I have completely uninstalled the drivers between tries...
I'm guessing the card is okay, and that it's an issue with either the drivers or my PCs available resources.
Any suggestions for a fix on this would be greatly appreciated.
[Edited by michaelh on 2005-12-21 01:25:49]
Participate on our website and join the conversation
This topic is archived. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast.
Responses to this topic
NT just has compatibility problems - also installation problems. Apparently, it won't boot now. If you can get to a "Dos" prompt, you can at least manage your way through to the various subdirectories. You will be hunting for the drivers that are causing the crash = nv*.* . Deleting them might give you a way of rebooting and at least initializing your system.
Thanks for the input.
I've been getting to the OS by reinstalling the old (barely functioning) video card. I then remove the nVidia drivers and proceed to try again, only with a different version of the drivers. So far, I've been unsuccessful in getting the new card to work with any nVidia drivers.
The card packaging indicates it is "NT compatible", and includes NT drivers. Could this possibly be an I/O resource issue? (this 64MB card is replacing an 8MB card on a system that has a lot of PCI cards in it.
I still suspect that the card itself is okay. I'm able to get to the desktop using default NT VGA drivers with the new card (16 colors at 640x480 - argh!).
If I am unable to get this working soon, I'll start searching for a surplus parts store and hope they have older cards I can try.
I've been getting to the OS by reinstalling the old (barely functioning) video card. I then remove the nVidia drivers and proceed to try again, only with a different version of the drivers. So far, I've been unsuccessful in getting the new card to work with any nVidia drivers.
The card packaging indicates it is "NT compatible", and includes NT drivers. Could this possibly be an I/O resource issue? (this 64MB card is replacing an 8MB card on a system that has a lot of PCI cards in it.
I still suspect that the card itself is okay. I'm able to get to the desktop using default NT VGA drivers with the new card (16 colors at 640x480 - argh!).
If I am unable to get this working soon, I'll start searching for a surplus parts store and hope they have older cards I can try.
I agree. The issue is drivers. You might find some modded drivers like NGO or Extreme G. However, your best bet is to try nV News' forum page: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/ or the Guru of 3D forums http://forums.guru3d.com/ . You could open a thread and ask them if they are familiar with NT drivers that may work. Some of their number are not mannerly and will chide you about your card, but there are some that might be able to help.
Originally posted by dosfreak:
Quote:The drivers with the card should work. I've used NT4 with a Geforce 4 and a Radeon 9700 with the drivers that came on the CD for them.
Hi dosfreak
Mid 2005 i came to the conclusion that
1) Radeon drivers for NT4 go no higher than the 8500,
(See https://support.ati.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=1349)
but the lowest i could buy new was 9250. i tried one but it didn't work.
2) nVidia drivers for NT4 seem to cover the current cards, but i couldn't get them to work with an Asus K8V-X (VIA chipset). Am sure i read that these drivers only work with Intel chipsets, but can't find where now.
If i'm wrong, please tell us the secrets of how you get an MX4000 to work.
What chipset/mobo were you on?
[btw, i prefer the MX4000 for 2D work, as it runs a lot cooler than the Radeon9250, and it still plays videos/DVDs OK. In Queensland heat can be a problem.]
I help a small company with a dozen desktops running NT4.
They don't want to upgrade yet
(hoping WINE will get good enough before they have to)
but with no NT4 drivers for new video cards,
and their old boxes dangling their feet in the grave,
looks like WinXP licenses may soon be on the shopping list...
Hope you can help.
noot
Quote:The drivers with the card should work. I've used NT4 with a Geforce 4 and a Radeon 9700 with the drivers that came on the CD for them.
Hi dosfreak
Mid 2005 i came to the conclusion that
1) Radeon drivers for NT4 go no higher than the 8500,
(See https://support.ati.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=1349)
but the lowest i could buy new was 9250. i tried one but it didn't work.
2) nVidia drivers for NT4 seem to cover the current cards, but i couldn't get them to work with an Asus K8V-X (VIA chipset). Am sure i read that these drivers only work with Intel chipsets, but can't find where now.
If i'm wrong, please tell us the secrets of how you get an MX4000 to work.
What chipset/mobo were you on?
[btw, i prefer the MX4000 for 2D work, as it runs a lot cooler than the Radeon9250, and it still plays videos/DVDs OK. In Queensland heat can be a problem.]
I help a small company with a dozen desktops running NT4.
They don't want to upgrade yet
(hoping WINE will get good enough before they have to)
but with no NT4 drivers for new video cards,
and their old boxes dangling their feet in the grave,
looks like WinXP licenses may soon be on the shopping list...
Hope you can help.
noot
1. I do have NT4 9700 drivers and I have used them before (mabye about a year ago when doing some compatibility testing).
The following is from the .INF packaged with the drivers.
Quote:;-----------------------------------------------; ATI Display Information file : ATIINTAG.INF
; Installation INF for ATI display driver.
; Copyright
1998-2002 ATI Technologies Inc.
; Windows NT 4.0
; Base INF Last Updated on 2002/08/01
[Version]
Signature="$Windows NT$"
Provider=%ATI%
ClassGUID={4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}
Class=Display
DriverVer=08/15/2002, 4.3.4034
[DestinationDirs]
DefaultDestDir = 11
ati2mtag.Miniport = 12 ; drivers
ati2mtag.Display = 11 ; system32
ati2mtag.Desktop = 11 ; system32
;
; Driver information
;
[Manufacturer]
%ATI% = ATI.Mfg
[ATI.Mfg]
"Radeon FSC" = ati2mtag_0x00005159
"Radeon FSC " = ati2mtag_0x00005159
"Radeon FSC " = ati2mtag_0x00005159
"Radeon FSC " = ati2mtag_0x00005159
"Radeon 8500 / 8500LE" = ati2mtag_0x0000514C
"RADEON 9000 Series -Primary" = ati2mtag_0x00004966
"RADEON 9000 Series -Secondary" = ati2mtag_0x0000496E
"RADEON 9500" = ati2mtag_0x00004144
"RADEON 9500 SECONDARY" = ati2mtag_0x00004164
"Radeon 9700" = ati2mtag_0x00004E44
"Radeon 9700 " = ati2mtag_0x00004E64
"Radeon FSC " = ati2mtag_0x00005159
2. The last intel chipset I used for home use was back when I was running a single proc P3 back in 2000-1??? I haven't used an intel chipset since then for home use. My next system after that I think I built in late 2001-2002 which was a dual proc VP6. I kept that system for quite some time and remember Geforce cards working in NT4 just fine with it (Can't really say if I tried a Geforce 4 in it tho).
I did have a Geforce 4MX in my parent's K63-400 (Via MVP3 chipset) with Windows XP recently and it ran fine (well except for the occasionally blue screens due to terrible Nvidia/MVP3 compatibility.
Video card drivers don't care about the chipset. That's too lower level and has nothing to do with video card support.
The following is from the .INF packaged with the drivers.
Quote:;-----------------------------------------------; ATI Display Information file : ATIINTAG.INF
; Installation INF for ATI display driver.
; Copyright
1998-2002 ATI Technologies Inc.; Windows NT 4.0
; Base INF Last Updated on 2002/08/01
[Version]
Signature="$Windows NT$"
Provider=%ATI%
ClassGUID={4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}
Class=Display
DriverVer=08/15/2002, 4.3.4034
[DestinationDirs]
DefaultDestDir = 11
ati2mtag.Miniport = 12 ; drivers
ati2mtag.Display = 11 ; system32
ati2mtag.Desktop = 11 ; system32
;
; Driver information
;
[Manufacturer]
%ATI% = ATI.Mfg
[ATI.Mfg]
"Radeon FSC" = ati2mtag_0x00005159
"Radeon FSC " = ati2mtag_0x00005159
"Radeon FSC " = ati2mtag_0x00005159
"Radeon FSC " = ati2mtag_0x00005159
"Radeon 8500 / 8500LE" = ati2mtag_0x0000514C
"RADEON 9000 Series -Primary" = ati2mtag_0x00004966
"RADEON 9000 Series -Secondary" = ati2mtag_0x0000496E
"RADEON 9500" = ati2mtag_0x00004144
"RADEON 9500 SECONDARY" = ati2mtag_0x00004164
"Radeon 9700" = ati2mtag_0x00004E44
"Radeon 9700 " = ati2mtag_0x00004E64
"Radeon FSC " = ati2mtag_0x00005159
2. The last intel chipset I used for home use was back when I was running a single proc P3 back in 2000-1??? I haven't used an intel chipset since then for home use. My next system after that I think I built in late 2001-2002 which was a dual proc VP6. I kept that system for quite some time and remember Geforce cards working in NT4 just fine with it (Can't really say if I tried a Geforce 4 in it tho).
I did have a Geforce 4MX in my parent's K63-400 (Via MVP3 chipset) with Windows XP recently and it ran fine (well except for the occasionally blue screens due to terrible Nvidia/MVP3 compatibility.
Video card drivers don't care about the chipset. That's too lower level and has nothing to do with video card support.
Thanks for the info dosfreak.
Both the ATI and the nVidia that you speak of date back to 2002 -- and time is the heart of the problem. Back then NT4 was still common, and new hardware still worked with it. Now things have changed, chips and drivers are different.
Manufacturers still put out NT4 drivers, but they don't seem to work with the new video boards. (They don't crash, I just get the plain VGA driver after re-boot, because "your new driver is missing or incomplete" or words to that effect.)
I found where it says you need an intel chipset:
http://www.xpertvision.com.tw/en/support/faq.html#4
(My card is from xpertvision.)
"No matter what OS you are using, if you use M/B with VIA, ALi, or SiS instead of Intel chip, you have to install AGP.VXD."
You can't install a vxd on NT4, so you need an intel chipset.
If anyone knows a new GeForce AGP card that really works with NT4, we'd love to hear about it.
But my client has a few old unused Win98 licenses, so these might do for a stop-gap -- leave NT4, without having to buy XP.
Next job after that, put all the genuine Win98 DLLs in WINE, and see if that really works.
(Surely someone knows already, but I haven't found the page where they told us about it.)
noot
Both the ATI and the nVidia that you speak of date back to 2002 -- and time is the heart of the problem. Back then NT4 was still common, and new hardware still worked with it. Now things have changed, chips and drivers are different.
Manufacturers still put out NT4 drivers, but they don't seem to work with the new video boards. (They don't crash, I just get the plain VGA driver after re-boot, because "your new driver is missing or incomplete" or words to that effect.)
I found where it says you need an intel chipset:
http://www.xpertvision.com.tw/en/support/faq.html#4
(My card is from xpertvision.)
"No matter what OS you are using, if you use M/B with VIA, ALi, or SiS instead of Intel chip, you have to install AGP.VXD."
You can't install a vxd on NT4, so you need an intel chipset.
If anyone knows a new GeForce AGP card that really works with NT4, we'd love to hear about it.
But my client has a few old unused Win98 licenses, so these might do for a stop-gap -- leave NT4, without having to buy XP.
Next job after that, put all the genuine Win98 DLLs in WINE, and see if that really works.
(Surely someone knows already, but I haven't found the page where they told us about it.)
noot
Errr...
.VXD's are only for Windows 9x.
NT4 doesn't require motherboard AGP drivers because NT4 doesn't support AGP. AGP graphics cards are essentially handled as PCI cards.
I'm not sure exactly what problem your experiencing but these are the facts.
1. Geforce 4 cards work in NT4.
2. They don't care if it's an Intel\Via motherboard. The cards will work regardless (Unless the motherboard\video card has a compatibility problem that needs to be fixed with an updated bios).
.VXD's are only for Windows 9x.
NT4 doesn't require motherboard AGP drivers because NT4 doesn't support AGP. AGP graphics cards are essentially handled as PCI cards.
I'm not sure exactly what problem your experiencing but these are the facts.
1. Geforce 4 cards work in NT4.
2. They don't care if it's an Intel\Via motherboard. The cards will work regardless (Unless the motherboard\video card has a compatibility problem that needs to be fixed with an updated bios).
