Quote:Answer my last question first in my last post please,

(I understand you think that my fix of adding files to Speedisk's exemption list would NOT stop it from interfering with XP optimization)

Because that is exactly what I use here, & you know that from above, I add files to its "DO NOT TOUCH THESE FILES" in Speedisk's list for that!


I never said you couldn't.

I said the average person would have to be smoking some good stuff to go through all that, when the program should be doing it anyways.

I mean, we're talking thousands of files here. And to add to the frustration, the files in layout.ini are dynamically changing from time to time (as you add or delete programs, files, etc.) I dont even know if I would do it one time, much less several times over the course of a few weeks. ;(

Thats not optimization, thats smoking some good stuff

To me, theres only three feasible options here.

1) Do it your way and edit SD according to layout.ini.

2) Disable XPs optimization routines and let SD run the show.

3) Find a defragger that already ignores the layout.ini files.

To me, I could do ok with #3, I could maybe live with #2, but for #1, uh uh, not for me. And you'd have a tough time convincing anyone else of that.

Your method works. I never denied that.

But wheres the logic in it? A defrag program should be designed to *SAVE* you time, not waste it. And when you have to spend time making up for a function that the software should ALREADY HAVE, thats wasting time, when its performed by practically every other defragger out there.

Alex, you pride yourself on being a tweaker, and making your computer run smoothly. Why do you do this? I would have to assume because you want your computer to run as fast as it can, as smooth as it can, and as reliable as it can. Why? So you can perform fast, and save time.

At least I think thats why. Please tell me if I'm mistaken.

#1 is not tweaking. Its wasting time IMHO.

'Nuff said about that...

As for the lack of "specific technical" information, right at the moment, thats the best I could find. The info may somewhere deep in technet or something, but I havent found it yet. And not for the lack of trying I might even be in the XP Resource Kit, but I dont have one yet, and may not for several weeks. For right now, the best I can do is what I gave you, plus the Greg Hayes posts in the NG's. His info is probably more helpful than MS's

But I do believe that the information in tose pages I gave you answered pretty much all the questions we had before (with the exception of "Specific Mechanics"). If your looking for source code, we might be waiting for awhile....

Your turn...

Also, for a more in depth information, you might go here...
 
http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/fastboot/download/fastboot-winxp.ZIP
 
Thats the white papers on fastboot. This document might have the most specific information we're going to find at MS
 
Tell me what you think of it.

I'll try and write a response to your previous post tomorrow evening, gotta go to work tomorrow
 
Your patch sounds like a great idea. Go for it, man!
 
Try SDOoptions.dll in the speed disk folder. I havent got anything that will read a DLL properly (any hints where I can find one? ), but reading that one, what I could make of it, showed hints of a lot of what looked like registry entries. I'll give it a go when I get back home in the evening.
 
Have a good one on me

Dude, scratch that last post.
 
Try here...
 
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Symantec\Speed Disk\Local Settings\Drive Option Sets\_Default\C:\psaUnmovableFiles]
@="2"
"0"="system32.dll"
 
I set system32.dll as a random file (why? I dunno ), just to make sure I could find the right place. That was what I found. So check it out...
 
It looks like it sets each excluded file as a separate REG_SZ key, starting from 0 and working its way up. I'm almost certain yours is filled to the hilt 8)
 
Does that help any?
 
Let me know, I'll talk to you tomorrow...

Try
 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Symantec\Speed Disk\Exported Settings\Global Options\Predefined System Files
 
and
 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Symantec\Speed Disk\Exported Settings\Global Options\Predefined Unmovable Files
 
I believe these are settings that tell SD to ignore key system files that are normally locked down, so as not to screw up the system during defrag.
 
Maybe you can fool SD into thinking the layout.ini files are system files, and thus unmovable 8)
 
So much for sleep...
 
Whatcha think of that?
 
EDIT: Change "Exported Settings" to "Local Settings". Sorry 8)

LOL, you type to fast for me, man.
 
Or posts are overlapping
 
At least we're on the same wavelength here...

Hell, wouldnt a batchfile do this?
 
Could a batchfile make each key(file) seperately in the registry?
 
or is this going to take actual coding?
 
EDIT/PLAYING CATCH-UP: Yeah, I can be a beta tester. I'm used to it. I run Windows
 
EDIT: correction: Batchfiles suck in this situation, I dont think Windows Scripting would do all that much better either, although its possible. Isnt that essentially what your doing, just with delphi or something.
 
Take it easy on me, I'm relatively new to coding, although I did some scripting in the past. Its rusty by now.

I think the best way to test this once its made is run SD with your code, do a defrag, and afterwards run
 
rundll32.exe advapi32.dll, ProcessIdleTasks
 
This will force XP to do its stuff with the optimizations.
 
Try this a few times, and hope it doesnt blow my system up 8)
Also, If this is working right, XP *shouldnt* change anything around if the files are in their proper place. This should tell us if SD is screwing around with stuff.
 
BTW, XP also tosses the MFT and MFT freespace around. I noticed that SD will throw it right back to the beginning again. Will your coding work with this? (I.E. I dont know if the MFT optimizations are in the layout.ini file or not. Thats my concern).
 
Hows that sound?
 
EDIT: added some stuff
 
(Hehe, I should make senior member in a couple of days at this rate )

Quote:(Never saw that rundll parm... what does it do?)

XP does its file optimizations during idle time, so as not to bother the user when their on the computer. This command forces it to happen NOW. It cranks the CPU to 100% too if theres anything to do. If theres nothing on the list, it wont do anything.

Quote:On your MFT$ EDIT: That I cannot stop... BUT, doesn't speedisk move it to the front of the disk if you MAKE it do that? The fastest part of the disk??


Actually, yes it does affect other defraggers DURING OFFLINE DEFRAG. They place it in a different spot though. Diskeeper puts it somewhere sround the first 1/4 of the disk. Now, Perfectdisk, I've noticed that it will pretty much leave it where XP tells the MFT freespace to go, but it will defrag the MFT files and leave the Freespace where it is. I dont know how it does this though, or why the two are different.

But, during online defrags, they will pretty much leave the MFT alone.

Maybe we can add that to the Exclusion list. Hell, a decent MFT shouldnt fragment at all unless its a database or something.

How would you add the MFT to SD's exclusion list separately? Im not sure what file to tell it...

EDIT: The reason I worry about this, is because XP, by design, puts the Bootfiles at the beginning of the disk for faster boot, right where SD puts the MFT!!! This is part of what we want to avoid! Plus, I too dont like the way SD defrags the MFT for exactly the reasons you stated. I myself have always been trying to find a way to make SD avoid it. If you know the proper name for the MFT file, I dont see why that cant be excluded according to user choice. IOW, find the filename for the MFT (I cant believe I dont know this one!), make the directions known to whoever wants to know it, and let them add it to their exclusion list. That way, it saves us both a lot of trouble.

Let me know what you think....

Quote:P.S.=> IN REGARD TO YOUR LOGIC ON STOPPING THE MFT$ MOVES BY SPEEDISK? Makes sense... if I send this to Norton? It may, as an ancillary benefit? CURE that for them also... "WoW" ² !!! Only question I have is... does XP for SURE defrag MFT$ on each disk? I can find disks easily enough, & force this for all disks the program can find too that are NTFS I think! apk


From my experience, yes, XP does defragment all partitions, including non-system ones (does for me anyways). Once it gets going, there may be some days where the MFT is flying all over the place, but diskeeper claims its not fragmented (it might be 3 fragments at times, but doesnt stay that way for long). 2 fragments is normal IIRC, because the MFT freespace is included as a fragment. Thus MFT+MFT Slackspace=2 fragments. 3 fragments isnt anything to worry about, but beyond that, if it stays that way, could mean slowdowns.

Quote:P.S.=> Take your time, you have a really good handle on things in the OS & I am glad we made acquaintance, because something really nice may come out of it, FOR EVERY SPEEDISK USER on alot of levels! apk

Ditto

I'll be on in the evening or so.

Have a good one...

Sorry folks - I really wasn't following this thread and didn't know I was being "called"...
 
Where to start in answering questions in this quite interesting thread:
 
- Can somebody point me quick on how to enable em/pm in this forum - that way if somebody wants to direct something to my attention, I'll be quicker to respond. Unfortunately, I do NOT read through every thread - just the ones who's subject/title catches my eye. I'm sure you all know what I mean...
 
 
- Win2k Mag defrag review. SpeedDisk is the ONLY defragmenter that does NOT use the MS defrag "APIs". This means that a lot of the restrictions of those APIs (move cluster granularity, ability to use free space INSIDE of the MFT Reserved Zone, ability to "move" files like the pagefile, $MFT and directories online) SpeedDisk doesn't have to worry about. This means that in certain situations, SpeedDisk will always be able to perform better than PerfectDisk and Diskeeper (under NT4 and Win2k). However, NOT using the MS defrag APIs comes with it's own set of issues.
 
 
- $MFT placement. With Windows XP, MS has changed the preferred location of the $MFT. Instead of being at the "top" of the logical partition, it now resides further into the partition. Please see MS article http://www.microsoft.com/HWDEV/storage/ntfs-preinstall.htm for information regarding this. PerfectDisk places the $MFT according to Microsoft's recommendations - SpeedDisk and Diskeeper still put at the "top" of the logical partition.
 
 
- Contrary to marketing messages, SpeedDisk (and Diskeeper) do NOT defragment ALL of the NTFS metadata. The interesting thing is that neither product will even tell you the names of the other metadata files and how badly fragmented they are - therefore, you have no way of knowing this.
 
 
- No problem re-posting what I had put in another newsgroup. My postings in public are for (among other things) eduction of the user community about stuff that I have some expertise in.
 
 
- WOW! You guys are going to a lot of trouble to make SpeedDisk compatible with WinXP's prefetch/layout. Sure hope that you get compensated for your effort Microsoft has directed 3rd party defragmenters to honor the file placement that it is doing (via layout.ini). Defrag vendors can either "play by MS's rules" or not. PerfectDisk has chosen to play by the rules. Other defragmenters have not. Is this necessarily a bad thing? MS has impletemented prefetch/layout for specific reasons - fast boot and application launch times. If a defragger "messes" with this, the downside is that the system may or may not appear to boot or launch applications as quickly as it would otherwise. Other than that, the system won't be "broken".
 
- Greg/Raxco Software