Have you ever been soooo Riled up, you just wanna....
After spending a few minutes searching through the forum, I came across another Creative bashing session. Whilst reading away, my blood began to boil, and steam bellowed form my ears. I thought '**** it, Creative are gonna get my 2 cents worth!' Here's what I had to say (as polite as I could without bursting an art ...
After spending a few minutes searching through the forum, I came across another Creative bashing session. Whilst reading away, my blood began to boil, and steam bellowed form my ears. I thought '**** it, Creative are gonna get my 2 cents worth!'
Here's what I had to say (as polite as I could without bursting an artery)
After months and months of waiting for creative to release the promised march release of windows 2000 drivers for the PCI64 based cards (From YOUR OWN PAGE: Late March, 2000 - Sound Blaster PCI series, Sound Blaster Audio PCI,) I decided to give creative a bit of slack and check your web page and hopefully find some goodies. But, as per usual, I find an out of date, never-seemingly-to-be-updated windows 2000 & SB faq. For such a huge company, I can honestly say, that creative have really got it all balls up. I'm throwing my unsupported, creative-considered-out-of-date piece of **** sound card in the trash and going for something else. Who ever has the best support, can have my $$, because creative obviously can't be bothered & don't give a rats what happens to me, as long as you have their cash.
Sound Blaster Live ain't the only card on the market you know!!
Buggered if it's gonna do any good, but I sure feel a bit better!!
Let the flaming BEGIN!
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Intel PIII 450
ASUS P2B-F (BIOS 1013a)
128 MB PC 100 SDRam
64 MB PC 133 SDRam
Diamond Viper 770 32Mb TNT2 (Det. 6.27)
Quantum Fireball CR 8.4Gb IDE HDD
Quantum Atlas II 4.5Gb SCSI HDD
Iomega 100MB internal IDE ZIP Drive
Tekram DC-310 (Symbios Logic 53C810) SCSI Adapter
Panasonic CW-7502 8x4 SCSI CD-R
Mitsubishi Diamond Data 32x IDE CD Rom
Creative Sound Blaster PCI 64 (ES 1370)
Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital 3D USB Joystick
Surecom EP-325 (Realtek 8029) PCI NIC
Epson Stylus Color 400 Printer
Dynalink V1456VQE-R External 56k V.90 Modem
Daewoo 710b 17" Monitor
Windows 2000 2195 SP1
****************************************
#NTCompatible on UNDERNET!!!
Here's what I had to say (as polite as I could without bursting an artery)
After months and months of waiting for creative to release the promised march release of windows 2000 drivers for the PCI64 based cards (From YOUR OWN PAGE: Late March, 2000 - Sound Blaster PCI series, Sound Blaster Audio PCI,) I decided to give creative a bit of slack and check your web page and hopefully find some goodies. But, as per usual, I find an out of date, never-seemingly-to-be-updated windows 2000 & SB faq. For such a huge company, I can honestly say, that creative have really got it all balls up. I'm throwing my unsupported, creative-considered-out-of-date piece of **** sound card in the trash and going for something else. Who ever has the best support, can have my $$, because creative obviously can't be bothered & don't give a rats what happens to me, as long as you have their cash.
Sound Blaster Live ain't the only card on the market you know!!
Buggered if it's gonna do any good, but I sure feel a bit better!!
Let the flaming BEGIN!
------------------
****************************************
Intel PIII 450
ASUS P2B-F (BIOS 1013a)
128 MB PC 100 SDRam
64 MB PC 133 SDRam
Diamond Viper 770 32Mb TNT2 (Det. 6.27)
Quantum Fireball CR 8.4Gb IDE HDD
Quantum Atlas II 4.5Gb SCSI HDD
Iomega 100MB internal IDE ZIP Drive
Tekram DC-310 (Symbios Logic 53C810) SCSI Adapter
Panasonic CW-7502 8x4 SCSI CD-R
Mitsubishi Diamond Data 32x IDE CD Rom
Creative Sound Blaster PCI 64 (ES 1370)
Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital 3D USB Joystick
Surecom EP-325 (Realtek 8029) PCI NIC
Epson Stylus Color 400 Printer
Dynalink V1456VQE-R External 56k V.90 Modem
Daewoo 710b 17" Monitor
Windows 2000 2195 SP1
****************************************
#NTCompatible on UNDERNET!!!
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Responses to this topic
Well, PCI64 is an old card, but I must recognise creative has behaved too bad. PCI64 is not so complex (it's basically an ensoniq PCI soundcard), and the only problem that it could have would be the ECW soundfont manager. I beleive creative hasn't released anything because they think is is better for their sales to FORCE their customers to upgrade to a live 1024 player.
Remeber that Sblive liveware 3 drivers came after TWO MONTHS from the stimated release date, and NO ADVISE was made on their official website. And liveware 4 for windows 2000 and Windows ME is spected to be released between september and October, but I'd rather say it won't, and we'll have to wait till new year eve!
Buy another sound card (a maxigamer is a very good choice, and there are already drivers for windows 2000).
Remeber that Sblive liveware 3 drivers came after TWO MONTHS from the stimated release date, and NO ADVISE was made on their official website. And liveware 4 for windows 2000 and Windows ME is spected to be released between september and October, but I'd rather say it won't, and we'll have to wait till new year eve!
Buy another sound card (a maxigamer is a very good choice, and there are already drivers for windows 2000).
My whole take on the thing is that some hardware manufacturers are just playing the waiting game; waiting for enough time to go by that they can say, "Sorry, we're not going to provide new drivers for your 'legacy' peripheral." That, and if enough time goes by they can add the line, "Gee, why don't you buy our new xyz-peripheral, it has Win2K drivers!"
Like others, I'm still waiting for drivers from Creative. In my case (something more than a broken beta) drivers for their Dxr3 decoder card.
Creative USED to have some of the best support in the industry. At least, they did several years ago when I bought my 12Mb Voodoo2 cards from them. However, Creative has really disappointed me on the Win2K driver issue, and I can see that I'm not the only one.
Win2K was in development for a substantial amount of time. Would it be too much to ask these companies to get their collective heads out of their arses and start developing drivers PRIOR to the official RTM of OS's? It's not like help from MS isn't available, e.g. MSDN.
A case in point: My wife's Compaq notebook functions very well with Win2K. Well, that is except for the built-in modem, which won't function at all under Win2K. The solution? Release a (relatively simple) flash-BIOS update. But what is Compaq's attitude toward the whole thing? "We manufactured your notebook computer for operation under Windows 98. We will not support it under any other operating system."
Well, that's all well and good for them. But what's MY attitude about Compaq's attitude? Instead of being, "Boy, them folks are really on the ball," it's, "Boy, I am NEVER, EVER, EVER buying a Compaq product again...EVER!" (And I'm telling all my friends not to, either.)
So, screw 'em.
Harrumph!
/me steps down from soapbox
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"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" -Adolph Hitler, 1935
[This message has been edited by DeadCats (edited 23 September 2000).]
Like others, I'm still waiting for drivers from Creative. In my case (something more than a broken beta) drivers for their Dxr3 decoder card.
Creative USED to have some of the best support in the industry. At least, they did several years ago when I bought my 12Mb Voodoo2 cards from them. However, Creative has really disappointed me on the Win2K driver issue, and I can see that I'm not the only one.
Win2K was in development for a substantial amount of time. Would it be too much to ask these companies to get their collective heads out of their arses and start developing drivers PRIOR to the official RTM of OS's? It's not like help from MS isn't available, e.g. MSDN.
A case in point: My wife's Compaq notebook functions very well with Win2K. Well, that is except for the built-in modem, which won't function at all under Win2K. The solution? Release a (relatively simple) flash-BIOS update. But what is Compaq's attitude toward the whole thing? "We manufactured your notebook computer for operation under Windows 98. We will not support it under any other operating system."
Well, that's all well and good for them. But what's MY attitude about Compaq's attitude? Instead of being, "Boy, them folks are really on the ball," it's, "Boy, I am NEVER, EVER, EVER buying a Compaq product again...EVER!" (And I'm telling all my friends not to, either.)
So, screw 'em.
Harrumph!
/me steps down from soapbox
------------------
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" -Adolph Hitler, 1935
[This message has been edited by DeadCats (edited 23 September 2000).]
Yes it's bad that CL haven't sorted out all of their Win2k drivers.
But like most companies they pour all of their resources into getting drivers sorted out for their newest products before bother ing with the older ones.
CL aren't the only big name company who have serious Win2k driver problems.
Hewlett Packard have been terrible.
Still we are waiting for drivers for much of their range, and those drivers that have been released are beta.
What amazes me is how many of these big companies think that this kind of thing is beneath them.
Lets take CL as an example for a second.
Do you remember one driver set for the SB cards ever showing as DirectX certified?
No, they think they are so big they don't have to bother with sending their drivers to MS for validation.
HP have pi**ed me off so much that I have vowed never to purchase their printers again.
I'm working as a Sys Admin now and I do get the final say on all computer related purchases - I'll never sign off an HP purchase again without very good reason (they can do something that nobody else can)
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PIII 700E, Intel D815EEA, 512MB PC100 RAM (Hyundai), Matrox G400MAX, SB Live! Value, Intel 10/100 NIC, Adaptec 2940UW, IBM 7200 ATA100 30GB HD, IBM 7200 ATA66 20GB HD, Pioneer 32x/6x SCSI DVD, Yamaha 4416 SCSI CD-RW, Iomega Zip 100 SCSI Internal, Iiyama Vision Master Pro 410.
Windows 2000 Only
But like most companies they pour all of their resources into getting drivers sorted out for their newest products before bother ing with the older ones.
CL aren't the only big name company who have serious Win2k driver problems.
Hewlett Packard have been terrible.
Still we are waiting for drivers for much of their range, and those drivers that have been released are beta.
What amazes me is how many of these big companies think that this kind of thing is beneath them.
Lets take CL as an example for a second.
Do you remember one driver set for the SB cards ever showing as DirectX certified?
No, they think they are so big they don't have to bother with sending their drivers to MS for validation.
HP have pi**ed me off so much that I have vowed never to purchase their printers again.
I'm working as a Sys Admin now and I do get the final say on all computer related purchases - I'll never sign off an HP purchase again without very good reason (they can do something that nobody else can)
------------------
PIII 700E, Intel D815EEA, 512MB PC100 RAM (Hyundai), Matrox G400MAX, SB Live! Value, Intel 10/100 NIC, Adaptec 2940UW, IBM 7200 ATA100 30GB HD, IBM 7200 ATA66 20GB HD, Pioneer 32x/6x SCSI DVD, Yamaha 4416 SCSI CD-RW, Iomega Zip 100 SCSI Internal, Iiyama Vision Master Pro 410.
Windows 2000 Only
My beef isn't with Creative Labs...
I've honestly had no trouble with any of my hardware, with the exception of my Logitech Camera, which has been dealt with.
In fact, Creative Labs runs 2 parts in my PC..my SB Live! and my Annhilator Pro, and I've been more than impressed with the performance with both pieces in Win2k.
In fact, it was DIAMOND that screwed me over with their parts....their S540Xtreme would crash my computer while using IE(or WE)...but the GeForce fixed that.
I've since been using Nvidia Reference Drivers(if leaked)..but still use the AGP Wizard to enable side band addressing(too bad the CUSL2 doesn't do 4x Fast Writes).
My Sound Blaster still continues to blow my ears away in Half Life(I love EAX, but my speakers hate the power I try to run through them ).
But as I do feel like bashing someone...and Windows not only recognized my HP printer, it even prints things backwards so they're ready to be stapled immediately(no 9x Shuffle)...which leaves me with only 1 major company.......
But bashing this company is like kicking a dying dog while it's down and rotten and dead already with steel toed boots (how do you like that analogy??). Have we guess who it is?
Not Packard Bell...they're gone(I think).
COMPAQ!!!
They refuse to acknowledge Win2k's existence and use in Presario computers...and will not issue drivers for their keyboards for Presarios(though Win2k is supported by Prosignia PC's using the same keyboard).
However, I was able to go from 98 to Win2k effortlessly, only losing my CD writing software(NTI CD Maker) and Norton AV 5.
Yet...and here's the real kicker. Compaq's modem(listed as a Rockwell HCF 56K) has drivers in Windows 2000 to run it...but not in 98SE...the very OS they claim to support exclusively. Oh well.
As for CL...look at it this way: They're not pulling any proprietary bull****. They're not saying you HAVE to use their equipment(although their market share leaves little true competition now that A3d is belly-up(and bought by CL if I recall correctly?)).
I could be mistaken...but aren't all CL soundcards natively supported by Windows 2000? my SBLIVE was recognized out ot the box...are older ones recognized(and functional)?
As for lowest support...I remember reading a post about some zip-like hardware that the company completely gave up on developing drivers...throwing in the towel, sticking their tails between their legs, and screaming to the world "We don't know what the f*ck we're doing. We want our Mommies"(Really...I heard it down the street j/k).
Oh, and Ekstreme? If you're just tossing it in the trash, can you rescue it for me? I mean..if you think it's worthless...you won't mind if I offer you just shipping, would you?
Diamond is dead...so my S90(already legacy when Compaq through it in my new pc a year ago) will forever be legacy only.
I've honestly had no trouble with any of my hardware, with the exception of my Logitech Camera, which has been dealt with.
In fact, Creative Labs runs 2 parts in my PC..my SB Live! and my Annhilator Pro, and I've been more than impressed with the performance with both pieces in Win2k.
In fact, it was DIAMOND that screwed me over with their parts....their S540Xtreme would crash my computer while using IE(or WE)...but the GeForce fixed that.
I've since been using Nvidia Reference Drivers(if leaked)..but still use the AGP Wizard to enable side band addressing(too bad the CUSL2 doesn't do 4x Fast Writes).
My Sound Blaster still continues to blow my ears away in Half Life(I love EAX, but my speakers hate the power I try to run through them ).
But as I do feel like bashing someone...and Windows not only recognized my HP printer, it even prints things backwards so they're ready to be stapled immediately(no 9x Shuffle)...which leaves me with only 1 major company.......
But bashing this company is like kicking a dying dog while it's down and rotten and dead already with steel toed boots (how do you like that analogy??). Have we guess who it is?
Not Packard Bell...they're gone(I think).
COMPAQ!!!
They refuse to acknowledge Win2k's existence and use in Presario computers...and will not issue drivers for their keyboards for Presarios(though Win2k is supported by Prosignia PC's using the same keyboard).
However, I was able to go from 98 to Win2k effortlessly, only losing my CD writing software(NTI CD Maker) and Norton AV 5.
Yet...and here's the real kicker. Compaq's modem(listed as a Rockwell HCF 56K) has drivers in Windows 2000 to run it...but not in 98SE...the very OS they claim to support exclusively. Oh well.
As for CL...look at it this way: They're not pulling any proprietary bull****. They're not saying you HAVE to use their equipment(although their market share leaves little true competition now that A3d is belly-up(and bought by CL if I recall correctly?)).
I could be mistaken...but aren't all CL soundcards natively supported by Windows 2000? my SBLIVE was recognized out ot the box...are older ones recognized(and functional)?
As for lowest support...I remember reading a post about some zip-like hardware that the company completely gave up on developing drivers...throwing in the towel, sticking their tails between their legs, and screaming to the world "We don't know what the f*ck we're doing. We want our Mommies"(Really...I heard it down the street j/k).
Oh, and Ekstreme? If you're just tossing it in the trash, can you rescue it for me? I mean..if you think it's worthless...you won't mind if I offer you just shipping, would you?
Diamond is dead...so my S90(already legacy when Compaq through it in my new pc a year ago) will forever be legacy only.
yes, companies seem to forget that everyone isnt goddamn bill gates and make 1 million dollars a year. I mean some people actually *gasp* are still running win95 (my girlfriend for example) because they are poor assed people due to things taking their money (school being hers), so when they finally get money to upgrade their OS only to find company XYZ wont support 2k with that old card not because its too complex to write drivers but because they want you to buy new product XYZ. They are so greedy that they want you to buy new products so they dont support old ones. Its just disturbing to see that **** happen.
I too have endlessly checked the never updated Creative site for drivers for the DXR3 only too be dissapointed again and again. Imagine my suprise too find out I had to flush the system after installing that bomb they called a beta. The first peice of hardware I got from Creative was the 12 meg 3D Blaster VooDoo 2 card and support was great. The reason I picked it was because I had previously ran Diamond hardware and support was dropping fast. Well we can see what happened to Diamond. Could Creative be next?
RattDawg
RattDawg
GOD DAMNED F*CKING SONS OF C*CKS*CKING B*TCHES!!! SH*TTY COMPAQ DID IT AGAIN!
They have a firmware update for their 5600i model Presarios' DVD drives...so I download and upgrade. THEN IT TURNS OUT THAT IT'S ONLY FOR SLOT LOAD DVD ROMS(which they conveniently don't mention). NOW I HAVE TO DO WITHOUT PC FOR 2 MONTHS TO GET IT FIXED.
I think I'll go out and buy a stupid plextor and save myself some F*cking aggrevation...
God damned sons of *****es...won't even help me get the old firmware back(I'm sure they have old versions as well as new). No. they want my money
Well F*CK THEM!!!
[This message has been edited by INFERNO2000 (edited 26 September 2000).]
They have a firmware update for their 5600i model Presarios' DVD drives...so I download and upgrade. THEN IT TURNS OUT THAT IT'S ONLY FOR SLOT LOAD DVD ROMS(which they conveniently don't mention). NOW I HAVE TO DO WITHOUT PC FOR 2 MONTHS TO GET IT FIXED.
I think I'll go out and buy a stupid plextor and save myself some F*cking aggrevation...
God damned sons of *****es...won't even help me get the old firmware back(I'm sure they have old versions as well as new). No. they want my money
Well F*CK THEM!!!
[This message has been edited by INFERNO2000 (edited 26 September 2000).]
I'm sorry. I thought that some of those words would get asterisked out....Admins, please Asterisk those for me, as it's being stupid and saying that I can't edit my own posts?
I'm under warranty(luckily), but goddamnit...they need to be more detailed.
Oh well...I'm heading off to pioneer to see if I can salvage some firmware codes....this thing was originally Pioneer, before Compaq brainwashed it to the dark side.
Oh well...I'm heading off to pioneer to see if I can salvage some firmware codes....this thing was originally Pioneer, before Compaq brainwashed it to the dark side.
I love outsmarting Compaqs "techies". I went to Pioneer and downloaded the firmware from them. I also lost the Compaq Branding on it
SO..now the only thing that says Compaq and IS compaq is my monitor...and dammit I bet that's made by NEC.
SO..now the only thing that says Compaq and IS compaq is my monitor...and dammit I bet that's made by NEC.
Mine was actually a Zenith CRT.
Anyhow, why do you need new drivers for the SB64PCI, my es1371 [the ES, for Ensoniq is why it's so good ] doesn't need new drivers, the card has excellent latency.
For example in winamp, with direct sound plugin, it can play seamlessly at 100ms latency with 1k block size. The SBLive! value using the latest drivers is absolutely terrible. I can't get more than 400ms, with huge blocks of upto 32K, any even still it looses sync, buffer overruns etc when you try to start another stream. The sb64v can easilly mix 5 winamps with no stuttering, the Live! can't even do 2. It is clear where Creative have to put their resources. The old Ensoniq drivers are rock solid and need no tinkering. (although tone controls would be nice, for jduImage)
The bas$$rds in my eyes are Huappuage, those stinking wee gits haven't done S*&t in years. Next its STB, my velocity 4400 (which I've just replaced) only ever had 1 driver update. The TV-out has never worked with any of the detonator drivers.
Hmm who's next?...
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System Spec:
Athlon 800
Gigabyte GA-7IXE F4
128Mb SSi PC100
Radeon 64Mb DDR (10/10)
Hauppauge Wintv Model 406
Realtek 8029 LAN (cnx to ISDN server)
Creative ES1371 PCI64v
Creative SBlive Value
Creative 48mx CDROM
Memorex TriMaxx200(DVD/CDR/CDRW, 6,4,24)
Maxtor 91301U3 13Gb UDMA 4
LS120
If Jungle.com say it is not in stock it'll never be in stock, so don't order it.
Anyhow, why do you need new drivers for the SB64PCI, my es1371 [the ES, for Ensoniq is why it's so good ] doesn't need new drivers, the card has excellent latency.
For example in winamp, with direct sound plugin, it can play seamlessly at 100ms latency with 1k block size. The SBLive! value using the latest drivers is absolutely terrible. I can't get more than 400ms, with huge blocks of upto 32K, any even still it looses sync, buffer overruns etc when you try to start another stream. The sb64v can easilly mix 5 winamps with no stuttering, the Live! can't even do 2. It is clear where Creative have to put their resources. The old Ensoniq drivers are rock solid and need no tinkering. (although tone controls would be nice, for jduImage)
The bas$$rds in my eyes are Huappuage, those stinking wee gits haven't done S*&t in years. Next its STB, my velocity 4400 (which I've just replaced) only ever had 1 driver update. The TV-out has never worked with any of the detonator drivers.
Hmm who's next?...
------------------
System Spec:
Athlon 800
Gigabyte GA-7IXE F4
128Mb SSi PC100
Radeon 64Mb DDR (10/10)
Hauppauge Wintv Model 406
Realtek 8029 LAN (cnx to ISDN server)
Creative ES1371 PCI64v
Creative SBlive Value
Creative 48mx CDROM
Memorex TriMaxx200(DVD/CDR/CDRW, 6,4,24)
Maxtor 91301U3 13Gb UDMA 4
LS120
If Jungle.com say it is not in stock it'll never be in stock, so don't order it.
You've got to look at it in a more long-term aspect here. The one Win2k driver release will be it for a couple of years (unless you're a US citizen). I don't like them much because they refused to help fix a bug with overlay on nvidia boards in win 9x, NT4, and even w2k, as far as they were concerned it wasn't their problem. But overlay worked in all my other apps, with other TVcard drivers, and even other tv apps with the hauppauge drivers with my TNT. As it happens I couldn't keep using the "other drivers" because my board uses a custom sound chip. Additionally, the only way I could use my tv card before the latest win2k drivers (why I know use w2k) was in NT4, as when the drivers or wintv app crashed it didn't take out the entire system, unlike in 9x.
[This message has been edited by euankirkhope (edited 27 September 2000).]
[This message has been edited by euankirkhope (edited 27 September 2000).]
