I can fix almost anything. But the fact is an AMD machine takes 3 times more work to maintain and setup then an INtel one. From Putting on the heatsink, to bioses, 4 in 1 drivers, or whatever else, they are a pain in the ***. And sometimes it cannot be fixed. like the VIa problems with the SB live. You just have to hope all your stuff is going to work right, or go with INTEL when you KNOW it will

Quote:Originally posted by sapiens74
...AMD machine takes 3 times more work to maintain and setup then an INtel one. From Putting on the heatsink, to bioses, 4 in 1 drivers, or whatever else, ...

First of all you have to put a heatsink on any Processor, some of us choose to overclock our cpus (not over clock the BUS) so we use bigger better heatsinks. If Intel's chips were not multiplier locked you would do the same thing. 2nd, BIOS flashes are common place in both Intel and AMD based boards, they are not usually necessary unless you have problems with specific hardware components. Some of us like to keep our BIOSes up to date regardless. 3rd, Intel Provides drivers just like AMD, VIA, ALI and SIS.

So how is it taking 3 times longer, let's see that would be about 9 hours or so given the average computer takes about 2.5 hours from build to complete OS load. To some, I guess double clicking on a driver executable is too much of a problem. If VIA chips suck so bad than why are they the number 2 chip maker instead of ALi or SIS?

Kia sells a lot of cars, does that mean they are high quality?
 
Your right I mean we all know VIA has the same quality as INtel, that's why so many large companies use VIa based systems now.
 
VIA sucks plain and simple. If you want to use a shitty chipset be my guest.
 
If it was a s easy as installing drivers, then it wouldnt be an issue. It's when you install the right drivers and Bios and heatsink, and tweak your settings, and you still geting ****ing BSOD's for no apparent reason till 3 months later a "fix" is issued, or an "A" version of a chipset is released making your board not only obsolete but one that doesn't function right.

Wow I am glad I never had any of those problems on any of my VIA boards even the 686B chip didn't hassle my SB Live at all. It really boils down to the MB Manufacturer and their level of quality, quality in components and process, perhaps you had poor cheap boards in your machines. I can name just as many crappy P3 and P4 boards as you can name socket A boards.

I have a VIA based board right now, the Asus K7V, and quite frankly it works fine. I had a VIA based board on an Abit KA7-100 which crapped out on me and gave me fits with hardware incompatibility. So I agree, that motherboard manufacturers can make the difference in how good a chipset is used. Clearly here the Asus make is better than the Abit.
 
Intel chipsets are good, I have an old Pentium that uses the 430VX and it is rock solid running Windows 95 or Windows 98. The same goes for my uncles 440BX Asus Board, damn that thing is REAL stable.
 
Although my next PC I am going with either an SIS or Intel chipset with an Intel Processor. I like to try different things, I really want to give SIS a try. I may try out an AMD XP processor with AMD chipset too, but I wanna try Intel next again.

I have had every Via chipset from the Kt133 through the KT266A, and they all had some sorty of issue, whether it be USB, or the SBlive issue, or not being able to run at AGP 4x.
 
It's always something

Those chips do appear on the low end crappy boards too you know. Stop blaming one component when their are 1000s of others on the board. A cheap voltage regulator purchased by the MB maker can cause all sorts of problems and that's just one example. Intel boards are by no means perfect, they have had issues as well. Everyone is so quick to say VIA/AMD suck when an issue pops up, but when Intel has issues it is OK?

You know your argument is like an owner of a Ford Explorer with defective Firestone tires saying "Well I've never had any problem with mine"
 
Your ignoring the others that are. And they arent all idiots. ANd Intel chipsets don't have issues like the VIA ones. Like I said I get paid a lot of money for tech issues, and those who are my peers agree, even those who run AMD at home, that VIA is a second class compnay. PERIOD!

First of all there is a huge difference between tires and chipsets. My chipset in not in danger of killing me or my family. Bottom line is I paid less for a chip and board that far out performs Intel chips of the same speed with the same stability as any of my Intel based machines. I still have money left for important things like food and bills. Wow! I get paid a lot of money to be a tech too, big deal. My peers are real, some like Intel some like AMD, there is no huge army anywhere waving big "intel rules" signs around here. Intel chips and chipset have issues as well...
 
Ok then let's talk issues:
 
Issue #1 Pentium 4 Processors (not MB)
Video Card Issues - Blue Screen and No Boot
 
Experiencing blue screen problems using Windows* 2000?
Consider upgrading your video card driver to the most recent. We have seen some instances where new drivers were required to handle the increased speed and performance of the Pentium 4 processors.
 
Experiencing no boot issues?
In some cases, we’ve seen this caused by older video drivers, causing some conflicts, when an Adaptec* SCSI controller card is installed. Recommendation is to upgrade your video card driver to the most recent
 
Sounds like a snow job to me?
 
Issue #2 Pentium 4 Processor (not MB)
"CPU Is Unworkable Or Has Changed" Message During Boot
 
Some Pentium 4 processor motherboards were designed when the Pentium 4 processor was first released at 1.4 and 1.5 GHz. Since then, faster Pentium 4 processors have been introduced and the BIOS must be updated so that it can recognize the faster processor. Therefore, to correct this problem, contact your motherboard manufacturer to get the newest BIOS update
 
Hmmm need BIOS updates?
 
Issue #3 Pentium 4 Processors (not MB)
Windows NT* Users
 
Service Pack 4
If you are using Windows NT* with service pack 4, then you will need to download and install the Intel Streaming SIMD Extensions driver to take advantage of SSE2.
 
More downloading if you are NT4.0 user!
 
Issue #4 Why Intel canned their Timna processor.
 
It turns out that ICH2 has an issue that only manifests with the i850 and i860 MCHs. Certain PCI cards run into a problem with certain commands that pre-fetch data from memory. Sometimes ICH2 will not invalidate pre-fetched data when it should. The issue is due to the interaction between the MCH and ICH2.
 
Issue #5 MEMORY as in the noise problems three RIMM RDRAM solutions ran into when Intel initially launched their i820 chipset
 
or the MTH issue Intel ran into, also related to RDRAM.
 
Hmmm... Intel is so quiet about issues.
 
Issue#6 Severe Interoperability Problems with Intel Chipsets: How to Fry Your i845 Motherboard
 
Video Cards that may FRY your i845 chipset MB
 
ATI Rage Fury Maxx - Rage 128 pro
Elsa Erazor III (100 ohms)
Hercules 3D Prophet 4500
SIS 305 32MB
Diamond Viper II z200 Savage 2000
Diamond Viper v770
VideoLogic Vivid! XS (Kyro II)
 
 
Well well chipset and CPU problems shall I go on?
and sure you could dig up VIA problems but does that make your problems go away? They do exist! PERIOD!

I am not going point for point on all the parts you listed, but the first one that drew my attention was (probably because I skimmed it) the last point you made about the video cards. This was *intentional* as the new boards are dropping support for the older voltage rail on those AGP cards. So, that isn't a problem at all. We also covered the MTH issue (the chipset was initially designed to support SDRAM, not RDRAM and Intel footed the bill to not only remove the faulty component but to also replace the SDRAM with RDRAM at no additional cost) previously, and the driver references that you speak of are basic as opposed to the ones that I usually mention. I have seen ones that enable "suspend" and "hibernate" even though these are things that have been working solidly since the release of Windows ME/2K (up to 2 years before the motherboard with the chipset) when they *should* have been working out of the box with these features. Oh, and if you are going bring up anything about NT4, you might want to remember how old that OS is and pretty much any new feature in hardware will require the use of a service pack (which they stopped shipping at SP6a). So yes, there is a big difference between the performance of Intel and Via with respect to chipsets, whether you know it or not.

sapiens74 you want quality car with high milesage there only two I know of Volvo and Toyota that are up to this task.

I own a Toyota.
 
I also own an INtel based system.
 
Both are known for reliability.

I used to make the same points you make Gen. But when you support PC's in an enterprise situation you begin to realize how much stabilty and reliability are important.
 
Neither of which VIA has shown they can do.
 
As to all those so called issues you pointed out, you know one person I sold an 820 MB ever had issues like BSOD but INTEL recalled it to be safe. VIA has been producing crap for years and instead of recalling thier faulty products like the kt266 chips they add an "A" to the chipset and make you buy a whole new board, with all "new" features ........
 
like working USB.

You got very good point there sapiens74, I belive this what I'am going to be getting next week Intel D845WN motherboard I know for sure it going to be a Intel P4 1.6GHz yes it SDRAM motherboard.

From an enthusiast and home user's standpoint, I'll say what I've said before: I don't believe the chipset matters as much. For critical applications and servers, heck, even any business machine, I'd be rather wary of anything outside of Intel. I'm a Via man @ home, but depending on where I land a tech job (PC shop or some company) may mandate in some way that Intel chipsets be used. I believe that you cannot go wrong with Intel at any point, but there are some places where anything but Intel is inappropriate. Clutch has been very good at laying out the points about Intel chipsets. If I had his experience, I'd probably be in the same position. Right now, I don't care so long as it's working well for what I do.

I agree, somehwat. Clutch and I probably do about the same thing. Tho he has a bit more credentials then me on the network side of things. ON the hardware side, I hae had a lot of VIa chipsets, more then those of you who argue for them. I have had really good via based boards like my old MSI kt266 R, and it still is rock solid stable, but too many others have not had that luck.
 
I guess the word should be CONSISTANCY. Via does not know the meaning of it. IF most via based boards were as stable as my MSI one, I'd be arguing with you. But the fact is, some boards are, and some arent. Even with my MSI I had 2 RMA's before they got it right. Now that's not VIA's fault, but it seems to be a pattern, whether it be the mb makers or VIA.

Well Sapiens, at least we can agree that MSI makes a fairly good board. When you get one that hasn't been finger f&cked by every idiot salesperson at the vendor/store. This is my first MSI board, I was reluctant to by MSI sooner because of how they used to be quality wise. Now I am sold on the new one at least. BTW how well does that Dual mouse work in games?

Quite nice. Not using a mousepad, and it resopnds very well. I wish they made the dual optical with the Microsoft ones tho. I like the feel of thiers better.

Quote:
From an enthusiast and home user's standpoint, I'll say what I've said before: I don't believe the chipset matters as much.

That's a really good point there Brian, as a home/enthusiast user, I gave VIA a try this time, and will probably give SiS, AMD, or even ALi a chance later on too.

I'll concede the enthusiast, but the home user doesnt need the headaches that come with Via chipsets. Computers are supposed to be easy to use, and trouble free, as well as stable.
 
Cheap chipsets are one of the reasons Windows has a bad name for stabilty.