NVidia "tactics" yet again
So now that all the hype surrounding the new 40. 41 drivers seems to have died down a little bit (I remember the days when a new software release generated excitement, not a new driver revision) can we now conclude that NVidia are simply up to their old tricks again? So NVidia suddenly, out of the blue release a ne ...
So now that all the hype surrounding the new 40.41 drivers seems to have died down a little bit (I remember the days when a new software release generated excitement, not a new driver revision) can we now conclude that NVidia are simply up to their old tricks again?
So NVidia suddenly, out of the blue release a new driver set that they claim can show up to a 25% increase in performance.
They aren't wrong, I've seen those kind of percentages being bantered around with 3DMark2001SE with the average increase seeming to be around 10%-13%
The problem is that maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't seem to be able to "play" 3DMark2001SE, it seems to be a sit back and let it play on your behalf kind of game /sarc
So we take a look at "real world" benchmarks, taking the most popular games and game benchmarks and see what these all new, all singing, all dancing drivers can really do.
Suprise, suprise, the old 28.xx drivers seem to be actually out-performing the new drivers in numerous tests.
In fact where the new drivers are giving improved performance in games we are talking 1-5fps increase, hardly blistering I'm sure you'll agree.
So why have NVidia waited until now to release these amazing drivers that unlock an extra 25% of performance?
Sure, a GPU revision or hardware change could give us these kinds of increases, but a simple driver revision?
If the drivers were very immature then yes, I could understand this.
The new Matrox card has been coming on leaps and bounds as new drivers make an appearance and there is high hope that future driver revisions will give an even higher increase, but the Detonator drivers are extremely mature, how come this amazing increase now?
Well even if it was true, even if all gamers were suddenly experiencing a massive increase in frames per second in games then NVidia are surely guilty of puposely holding back the full potential of their hardware for some unknown reason.
However we need to look at the bigger picture here, their rivals, namely ATI.
ATI have been slowly shipping their new GPU for a little while now and within a month it will be available en mass.
3DMark2001SE has been showing some pretty amazing scores for this new offering from ATI.
NVidia were bound to loose a lot of customers, what with the NV30 being pushed back to a probable 2003 release, a lot of people were going to go and buy the new ATI card.
Most in turn would not have bought the NV30, people do not buy two £300+ cards in a matter of months, surely NVidia realsed that their market share may take a bit of a hammering over this.
Even if the NV30 is a lot better that the ATI card people would not shell out another £350+ to NVidia just to have yet another card.
NVidia's reply to this potential problem?
A new driver totally optomised for 3DMark2001SE.
Suddenly a lot of people who were waiting for the ATI card are thinking "Oh, 25% increase in performance, think I'll wait for the NV30 now".
Too many people are putting too much faith in the benchmark known as 3DMark.
I've seen numerous posts on many forums telling the world how great NVidia are for releasing a driver that unlocks an extra 25% performance out of their cards.
No, they have released a driver that performs amazingly under 3DMark and offers a nice new interface with a few new options.
Go and fire up your favourite game benchmark and then come back and tell me that performance has increase by 25%.
Hell tell me it has increased 10-13% (as it has under 3DMark2001SE) and I'll show you a liar.
This is not the first time NVidia have done this and I cannot believe that so many people cannot see through the gloss NVidia have thrown up.
These new drivers will give you the same kind of increase in games that all new NVidia drivers do - a little here and a little there whilst a drop in performance elsewhere.
These are not some magic drivers that extend the life of your current card, this is hype and usual tactivs from a company scared to loose market share.
Tactics from a company forced to push back the release of their own new GPU and are scared that their rivals may just get a foothold in the market.
You cannot really blame them for this, every company wants to be successful, to make money at all opportunities.
Usually this is by releasing a new product and watching the money come rolling in.
On this occasion they have decided that potentially money not rolling into ATI is as good as them making money themselves.
Please see past the gloss over this driver release, check the FPS on your favourite games, the ones you actually play and don't sit back and watch displaying pretty pictures.
Then too you should be able to see exactly what these drivers are all about.
So NVidia suddenly, out of the blue release a new driver set that they claim can show up to a 25% increase in performance.
They aren't wrong, I've seen those kind of percentages being bantered around with 3DMark2001SE with the average increase seeming to be around 10%-13%
The problem is that maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't seem to be able to "play" 3DMark2001SE, it seems to be a sit back and let it play on your behalf kind of game /sarc
So we take a look at "real world" benchmarks, taking the most popular games and game benchmarks and see what these all new, all singing, all dancing drivers can really do.
Suprise, suprise, the old 28.xx drivers seem to be actually out-performing the new drivers in numerous tests.
In fact where the new drivers are giving improved performance in games we are talking 1-5fps increase, hardly blistering I'm sure you'll agree.
So why have NVidia waited until now to release these amazing drivers that unlock an extra 25% of performance?
Sure, a GPU revision or hardware change could give us these kinds of increases, but a simple driver revision?
If the drivers were very immature then yes, I could understand this.
The new Matrox card has been coming on leaps and bounds as new drivers make an appearance and there is high hope that future driver revisions will give an even higher increase, but the Detonator drivers are extremely mature, how come this amazing increase now?
Well even if it was true, even if all gamers were suddenly experiencing a massive increase in frames per second in games then NVidia are surely guilty of puposely holding back the full potential of their hardware for some unknown reason.
However we need to look at the bigger picture here, their rivals, namely ATI.
ATI have been slowly shipping their new GPU for a little while now and within a month it will be available en mass.
3DMark2001SE has been showing some pretty amazing scores for this new offering from ATI.
NVidia were bound to loose a lot of customers, what with the NV30 being pushed back to a probable 2003 release, a lot of people were going to go and buy the new ATI card.
Most in turn would not have bought the NV30, people do not buy two £300+ cards in a matter of months, surely NVidia realsed that their market share may take a bit of a hammering over this.
Even if the NV30 is a lot better that the ATI card people would not shell out another £350+ to NVidia just to have yet another card.
NVidia's reply to this potential problem?
A new driver totally optomised for 3DMark2001SE.
Suddenly a lot of people who were waiting for the ATI card are thinking "Oh, 25% increase in performance, think I'll wait for the NV30 now".
Too many people are putting too much faith in the benchmark known as 3DMark.
I've seen numerous posts on many forums telling the world how great NVidia are for releasing a driver that unlocks an extra 25% performance out of their cards.
No, they have released a driver that performs amazingly under 3DMark and offers a nice new interface with a few new options.
Go and fire up your favourite game benchmark and then come back and tell me that performance has increase by 25%.
Hell tell me it has increased 10-13% (as it has under 3DMark2001SE) and I'll show you a liar.
This is not the first time NVidia have done this and I cannot believe that so many people cannot see through the gloss NVidia have thrown up.
These new drivers will give you the same kind of increase in games that all new NVidia drivers do - a little here and a little there whilst a drop in performance elsewhere.
These are not some magic drivers that extend the life of your current card, this is hype and usual tactivs from a company scared to loose market share.
Tactics from a company forced to push back the release of their own new GPU and are scared that their rivals may just get a foothold in the market.
You cannot really blame them for this, every company wants to be successful, to make money at all opportunities.
Usually this is by releasing a new product and watching the money come rolling in.
On this occasion they have decided that potentially money not rolling into ATI is as good as them making money themselves.
Please see past the gloss over this driver release, check the FPS on your favourite games, the ones you actually play and don't sit back and watch displaying pretty pictures.
Then too you should be able to see exactly what these drivers are all about.
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Responses to this topic
I've stuck with the 21.81's for a long while now and haven't had any good reason to go further.
i don't really give a crap as long as they are stable and compatable. They are just 2 fps faster for me but i don't really expect much out of my gf2mx at this point. It is time to upgrade.
Nvidia has always improved performance in their drivers....even when ATI hasn't released anything new. Det 40 offers more than just 3dmark improvements. OGL v1.4 and a newer GUI. I don't know if I like the GUI....I hate this "XP" attitude that's going around, wish you could revert back but oh well.
ATI does the same thing in case you forgot. 3Dmark 3dmark 3dmark. Matrox does the same thing to. EVERY company is focusing on 3Dmark since that's what most newbies seem to focus on. It's a simple benchmark that the average ameature n00b seems to think means that if your computer matches X scores then your computer must be SUPERFAST! Stop trying to make it an Nvidia thing. The ONLY reason 3Dmark increase is because the NATURE demo increase, if you knew what the NATURE benchmark was composed of then you would realize why this new DET made it much faster. It's not a conspiracy. :rolleys:
ATI does the same thing in case you forgot. 3Dmark 3dmark 3dmark. Matrox does the same thing to. EVERY company is focusing on 3Dmark since that's what most newbies seem to focus on. It's a simple benchmark that the average ameature n00b seems to think means that if your computer matches X scores then your computer must be SUPERFAST! Stop trying to make it an Nvidia thing. The ONLY reason 3Dmark increase is because the NATURE demo increase, if you knew what the NATURE benchmark was composed of then you would realize why this new DET made it much faster. It's not a conspiracy. :rolleys:
Quote:I don't know if I like the GUI....I hate this "XP" attitude that's going around, wish you could revert back but oh well.
;( The only thing even remotely XP-ish about it is the big green banner telling you what your video card is. Apart from that and the new tree view, it isn't that drastic (much like Luna actually)...
Rolling everything into the one tab is a good idea. It reduces the clutter in an already crowded property sheet.
;( The only thing even remotely XP-ish about it is the big green banner telling you what your video card is. Apart from that and the new tree view, it isn't that drastic (much like Luna actually)...
Rolling everything into the one tab is a good idea. It reduces the clutter in an already crowded property sheet.
I of course expected a few replies along these lines, I think some of the original post could have been written better, but the points which aren't clear or unclear I'll just re-write.
This post is not an attempt at an ATI Vs NVidia thread.
I am more than aware that both NVidia & ATI have done similar things in the past and I'm sure this is not the last time it will happen.
The truth of the matter is that I'm reading people almost wetting themselves over these new drivers.
How they are thanking the mysterious NVidia for these wonderfull drivers that are about to make their whole computer and gaming experience better.
How because their 3DMark score has increased by 1000pts that every single thing they run on their machine will have a similar increase too.
I've said it before although some people just don't want to understand, a good 3DMark score does not a good release make.
Win2k SP2 is released - Posts such as "SP2 suxs, 3DMark score dropped by 200pts" make me mad.
It's almost as if half of the computer world has gone into some senseless sheep following and has decided that the be all and end all of computer performance stops at 3DMark.
Maybe my initial post could be considered an attack on Madonion rather than NVidia or ATI - With so many mindless people assuming high 3DMark score = best performance for everything maybe you cannot blame the graphics companies for "fixing" their drivers to give the best possible score in a benchmark program.
The 25% performance increase claimed by NVidia is only evident in 3DMark, no other application or game is showing anything like that kind of increase.
With every new driver release you get an increase, usually around 1-3fps in your average game, this is exactly what these new drivers are giving.
The main reason behind the post is please don't be sucked in, either by the Madonion crowd who spend 23hrs a day trying to get a few more points on their system and the other hour eating pizza nor the graphics company who are in effect saying "Don't even consider our rivals product, look what we can achieve with a single driver release".
This post is not an attempt at an ATI Vs NVidia thread.
I am more than aware that both NVidia & ATI have done similar things in the past and I'm sure this is not the last time it will happen.
The truth of the matter is that I'm reading people almost wetting themselves over these new drivers.
How they are thanking the mysterious NVidia for these wonderfull drivers that are about to make their whole computer and gaming experience better.
How because their 3DMark score has increased by 1000pts that every single thing they run on their machine will have a similar increase too.
I've said it before although some people just don't want to understand, a good 3DMark score does not a good release make.
Win2k SP2 is released - Posts such as "SP2 suxs, 3DMark score dropped by 200pts" make me mad.
It's almost as if half of the computer world has gone into some senseless sheep following and has decided that the be all and end all of computer performance stops at 3DMark.
Maybe my initial post could be considered an attack on Madonion rather than NVidia or ATI - With so many mindless people assuming high 3DMark score = best performance for everything maybe you cannot blame the graphics companies for "fixing" their drivers to give the best possible score in a benchmark program.
The 25% performance increase claimed by NVidia is only evident in 3DMark, no other application or game is showing anything like that kind of increase.
With every new driver release you get an increase, usually around 1-3fps in your average game, this is exactly what these new drivers are giving.
The main reason behind the post is please don't be sucked in, either by the Madonion crowd who spend 23hrs a day trying to get a few more points on their system and the other hour eating pizza nor the graphics company who are in effect saying "Don't even consider our rivals product, look what we can achieve with a single driver release".
^^^^
very very very!! well said
i did the 3dmark thing when i first got my g4 4600 card, just to see how it would do, after that i didtched it.
My games play fast, and they play well, i know my system runs good, and i also know there are people out there with FAR better systems then mine, and that i got a better system then others - i don't need a program to tell me that.
Beasides, 100FPS, the human eye can not even SEE that many frames per second, so what does 2, or 3 more frames do.... not much for me, that i know.
oph well,
let the brainless people out there who thinkg that a score from a program is the end all of their system keep on beleiving that, it is those people as well who run out and buy ever new video card that comes out as well cause it is somuch faster then the last! and yet there is not alot out there that will even use that power!
Example
How many people are going out and buying a New mobo with 8x AGP so they can get a new 9700 PRO card? to use the 8x AGP of it.
waste!
i will wait till the 256mb 9700 PRO comes out if anything before i get a new card for antyhing.
although this g4 4600 ultra will likely do me fine for quiet some time!
very very very!! well said
i did the 3dmark thing when i first got my g4 4600 card, just to see how it would do, after that i didtched it.
My games play fast, and they play well, i know my system runs good, and i also know there are people out there with FAR better systems then mine, and that i got a better system then others - i don't need a program to tell me that.
Beasides, 100FPS, the human eye can not even SEE that many frames per second, so what does 2, or 3 more frames do.... not much for me, that i know.
oph well,
let the brainless people out there who thinkg that a score from a program is the end all of their system keep on beleiving that, it is those people as well who run out and buy ever new video card that comes out as well cause it is somuch faster then the last! and yet there is not alot out there that will even use that power!
Example
How many people are going out and buying a New mobo with 8x AGP so they can get a new 9700 PRO card? to use the 8x AGP of it.
waste!
i will wait till the 256mb 9700 PRO comes out if anything before i get a new card for antyhing.
although this g4 4600 ultra will likely do me fine for quiet some time!
