Thoughts on copy protection
OK guys, this was a post I made in reply on a thread about winXK beta 2 and why we are having to wait longer for it (not showing up on subscriber downloads) over at microsoft. public. msdn. general Thing is, many want to get to testing their apps for compatibility and get on with providing software support, but we' ...
OK guys, this was a post I made in reply on a thread about winXK beta 2 and why we are having to wait longer for it (not showing up on subscriber downloads) over at microsoft.public.msdn.general Thing is, many want to get to testing their apps for compatibility and get on with providing software support, but we're having to wait for CDs likely, unlike in the past where we could download, because of this copy protection thing it would seem. Not like software support isn't of benefit however.
This reply would not post...other posts would, and to get it to post, I had to leave out my opinions on copy protection specifically. Well, I'm still hoping that it was a network error and nothing more, but I attempted a few times when other things showed up including from myself but not it), same result... This sets the stage for my copied post in the attached message...context it was given in. I do think discussion of copy protection and what people think of it, people's feedback is reasonable, so am posting what I had to say about copy protection over here.
[This message has been edited by Greg S Trouw (edited 27 March 2001).]
This reply would not post...other posts would, and to get it to post, I had to leave out my opinions on copy protection specifically. Well, I'm still hoping that it was a network error and nothing more, but I attempted a few times when other things showed up including from myself but not it), same result... This sets the stage for my copied post in the attached message...context it was given in. I do think discussion of copy protection and what people think of it, people's feedback is reasonable, so am posting what I had to say about copy protection over here.
[This message has been edited by Greg S Trouw (edited 27 March 2001).]
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Finally, as to making a special distrabution...if this is to throw copy protection at us, whereas the beta testers can download a version without it...then maybe I don't want to have to wait longer for a version just to throw this into the mix. Just let us download their version in the time being and let us work with it for now. The work developers do is no less vital for MS, and as to making us wait for this given reason....oh boy could I go into a rant about the whole thing. The copy protection on my Office 2k CD is a royal pain in the a**, have to reinstall or whatever, do upgrades, whatever and I have to call for permission to install something I already purchased and hence have a liscence too.
And that isn't even to mention the guy on the phone one day who accused me of piracy because Office 2k was supposedly on another computer, because:
1. I had a new mobo and processor (albeit it was the same exact hard drive mind you)
2. I previously installed Office 2k on a beta/RC build of win2k, but now had the retail release this time around (different OS CD)
I had to go into some biga** justification and explenation as to how I'm not a pirate but someone who beta tested win2k and upgraded my computer. After that he did admit both of these could cause their computers to assume that and did give me the key, but in my opinion:
1. Accusing people who are beta testing MS's OSes for them and giving them vital feedback or services, that help them when it comes to the selling of that OS latter on (be it because they could better track down and elliminate bugs, or because of greater software support) is a real slap in the face. People who test/look at their betas are doing it for free (or we pay subscription costs)...we don't make money for the time involved or the service offered. For this, a recompensation of "You got a different OS you're trying to load this software on....you're a pirate"...does the phrase kicking the gift horse in the mouth come to mind?
2. Consumer grade software should NOT be tied to a specific peice of hardware...and I in no way support any attempts to do this. If you look closely at Microsoft's EULA, the consumer is given the right under that EULA to transfer the software (as many copies as they have liscences...in case of liscence packs or multiple liscences) up to the number of computers they are entitled to install it on (1 with many shrink wrapped programs, albeit additional liscences can be purchased which is what many net admins do), and I think it's 10 with workstation class software as specified by the MSDN liscence agreement (OK, didn't look at it since last year...so maybe they changed this).
Anyway, by tying this to a specific computer with their instillation and confirmation code, what they are doing in the name of anti-piracy is making it MORE DIFFICULT FOR LEGAL USERS to exercise this extended right, as spelled out in back and white in the EULA itself...AND YET, real pirates, by use of hacks or other mechanisms will undoubtedly find a way around. It is questionable whether it will stop real hard core pirates, and yet the typical user gets what? And what are those of us waiting on this to test our programs with the new OS, programs that would encourage consumers to want to upgrade by making use of the thing getting due to this?
When a piece of software is not distributed with a new PC, it is even more questionable to try to tie it to that thing...oh new computer, instillation code different sorta thing....
3. People have the right to upgrade their computers without having to buy a new one...and many people, be they power users, hard core gamers, computer engineers and developers, etc do just this...rather then just go out and buy a new one. People should not be given grief trying to installl/activate/use their OS and software just because they upgrade their computers (some people more frequently then others), nor should they have to buy all new software every time they upgrade.
4. With the Office 2k confirmation code...as I remember, even if *not* upgrading or changing to a different OS, the code eventually expires, so installed much, much latter on, a new confirmation code was needed anyway.
Please do not even get me started with "be more patient as MS refuses to get this thing out to us now, because they're trying to get things with copy protection....which I am against as it is.... I could start a whole thread on my thoughts about their copy protection scheme and what it is forcing even legal and liscenced users to go through, as well as developers who develop the software that gives them the software compatibility Windows enjoys, all because of PARANOIA.
And that isn't even to mention the guy on the phone one day who accused me of piracy because Office 2k was supposedly on another computer, because:
1. I had a new mobo and processor (albeit it was the same exact hard drive mind you)
2. I previously installed Office 2k on a beta/RC build of win2k, but now had the retail release this time around (different OS CD)
I had to go into some biga** justification and explenation as to how I'm not a pirate but someone who beta tested win2k and upgraded my computer. After that he did admit both of these could cause their computers to assume that and did give me the key, but in my opinion:
1. Accusing people who are beta testing MS's OSes for them and giving them vital feedback or services, that help them when it comes to the selling of that OS latter on (be it because they could better track down and elliminate bugs, or because of greater software support) is a real slap in the face. People who test/look at their betas are doing it for free (or we pay subscription costs)...we don't make money for the time involved or the service offered. For this, a recompensation of "You got a different OS you're trying to load this software on....you're a pirate"...does the phrase kicking the gift horse in the mouth come to mind?
2. Consumer grade software should NOT be tied to a specific peice of hardware...and I in no way support any attempts to do this. If you look closely at Microsoft's EULA, the consumer is given the right under that EULA to transfer the software (as many copies as they have liscences...in case of liscence packs or multiple liscences) up to the number of computers they are entitled to install it on (1 with many shrink wrapped programs, albeit additional liscences can be purchased which is what many net admins do), and I think it's 10 with workstation class software as specified by the MSDN liscence agreement (OK, didn't look at it since last year...so maybe they changed this).
Anyway, by tying this to a specific computer with their instillation and confirmation code, what they are doing in the name of anti-piracy is making it MORE DIFFICULT FOR LEGAL USERS to exercise this extended right, as spelled out in back and white in the EULA itself...AND YET, real pirates, by use of hacks or other mechanisms will undoubtedly find a way around. It is questionable whether it will stop real hard core pirates, and yet the typical user gets what? And what are those of us waiting on this to test our programs with the new OS, programs that would encourage consumers to want to upgrade by making use of the thing getting due to this?
When a piece of software is not distributed with a new PC, it is even more questionable to try to tie it to that thing...oh new computer, instillation code different sorta thing....
3. People have the right to upgrade their computers without having to buy a new one...and many people, be they power users, hard core gamers, computer engineers and developers, etc do just this...rather then just go out and buy a new one. People should not be given grief trying to installl/activate/use their OS and software just because they upgrade their computers (some people more frequently then others), nor should they have to buy all new software every time they upgrade.
4. With the Office 2k confirmation code...as I remember, even if *not* upgrading or changing to a different OS, the code eventually expires, so installed much, much latter on, a new confirmation code was needed anyway.
Please do not even get me started with "be more patient as MS refuses to get this thing out to us now, because they're trying to get things with copy protection....which I am against as it is.... I could start a whole thread on my thoughts about their copy protection scheme and what it is forcing even legal and liscenced users to go through, as well as developers who develop the software that gives them the software compatibility Windows enjoys, all because of PARANOIA.
yeah i am gettin the beta 2 without the copy protection crap> nice
This is the only reason why I wont be upgrading/sidegrading to XP. Why should the legit users have to deal with this? You know how many legit buyers of 3dStudio Max used cracks so they didn't have those hardware lock dongle's messing up their systems? I gotta give it to Microsoft, they are #1 at alienating the very customers they rely on. Oh well, I was able and willing to "buy" XP the first day of it's release, but to have to through that kinda fud is totaly uncalled for! Yes, I know their will possibly be cracks to get around this but i'm not even going down that road anymore. If I pay my hard earned money for it, I shoudn't have to use crack/hacks and go through major non-needed hassles to enjoy it. They change it so it's normal like all the other OS's ive bought from them, i'll be the first one here on this msg board posting pics of my reciept of my legit copy of XP.
That said, I hope you all have fun with XP. I'll be missin out on it.
Cheers,
The ionnnaire
That said, I hope you all have fun with XP. I'll be missin out on it.
Cheers,
The ionnnaire
This is total nonsence. They tried this crap with those in the official beta program, and from the sound of the previous respondent they don't have it.
So now, MS turns around and then tries to pull this crap on their third party developers and because of this, we can't get ahold of the thing. So now, people who develop, be it the device drivers or the applications can't get down to the business of testing their code for compatibility and making non-compatible product, comptable.
This is nuts. How are customers supposed to get increased compatibility with drivers and programs, if because of this the programmers who are responsible for these drivers and apps can't get the OS to test on?
This is in addition yes, to this whole issue of copy protection and what it is doing to the consumer. This is rediculous. As you're saying, it's legit customers who are paying the price....the pirates will be more then happy to make and use hacks.....
So now, MS turns around and then tries to pull this crap on their third party developers and because of this, we can't get ahold of the thing. So now, people who develop, be it the device drivers or the applications can't get down to the business of testing their code for compatibility and making non-compatible product, comptable.
This is nuts. How are customers supposed to get increased compatibility with drivers and programs, if because of this the programmers who are responsible for these drivers and apps can't get the OS to test on?
This is in addition yes, to this whole issue of copy protection and what it is doing to the consumer. This is rediculous. As you're saying, it's legit customers who are paying the price....the pirates will be more then happy to make and use hacks.....
As a user like me who has never bougt a peice of software the actvation is no big deal. Come final release someone will get their hands on a select edition or an all in wonder key and there will be no activation and the worst thing that i would have to do is replace some dlls and what not and reburn the cd which is no biggie either. So the point of all this is that it sucks more for legit users than the actual theifs.
Exactly! Thank you very much Microsoft for comming up with a scheme that burns your legit/paying customers more then the people you allegedly want to go against!!!!
(That said, you get the CD at the end of the beta test period, don't ya? You've payed, in other ways. The time to debug, track down porbs, and report back to them, hehe)
But on accounts of both being a user, as well as someone who has had to manage networks before (more then 1 or 2 computers on them, hehe).... Well with the network, can you imagine the poor sap who has a corporate liscence (there are a few options such as liscence packs or a universal liscence....that allows one to install their MS software onto up to any number of comptuers they have, but costs around $8 million/year), who might have to manage/be responsible for 30,000-60,000 computers in some companies....
Umm....if some hardware in one of these things goes down, and a company can not afford downtime (costing businesses like $1,000/hour in lost productivity....), one has got to be able to just replace failing hardware. They can't wait for Microsoft to approve of things....with the bosses breathing down one's neck...and if it's bad for the company continually....the possibility of getting fired for it.
An hour or so on the phone to Microsoft, waiting in the wait queue is a big deal if one of the corporations critical servers goes down (remember winXP server as well as pro and home user edition...) and now lots and lots of employees can't do their jobs and complains to their bosses, because.....
(That said, you get the CD at the end of the beta test period, don't ya? You've payed, in other ways. The time to debug, track down porbs, and report back to them, hehe)
But on accounts of both being a user, as well as someone who has had to manage networks before (more then 1 or 2 computers on them, hehe).... Well with the network, can you imagine the poor sap who has a corporate liscence (there are a few options such as liscence packs or a universal liscence....that allows one to install their MS software onto up to any number of comptuers they have, but costs around $8 million/year), who might have to manage/be responsible for 30,000-60,000 computers in some companies....
Umm....if some hardware in one of these things goes down, and a company can not afford downtime (costing businesses like $1,000/hour in lost productivity....), one has got to be able to just replace failing hardware. They can't wait for Microsoft to approve of things....with the bosses breathing down one's neck...and if it's bad for the company continually....the possibility of getting fired for it.
An hour or so on the phone to Microsoft, waiting in the wait queue is a big deal if one of the corporations critical servers goes down (remember winXP server as well as pro and home user edition...) and now lots and lots of employees can't do their jobs and complains to their bosses, because.....
Product activation will not be included in the corporate license editions of XP. I would assume that it won't be part of any of the server editions. It is only there to stop casual copying. An example of this is someone buying it and installing it on his three computers, then installing it on everyone in his family's computers, then passing it around to his friends at the office.
Is it a big annoyance? Sure. Can I understand why software companies are moving to it? Yep. Microsoft is not the first to go this route, nor will they be the last.
Is it a big annoyance? Sure. Can I understand why software companies are moving to it? Yep. Microsoft is not the first to go this route, nor will they be the last.
Now is the time for the Linux camp to deliver a OS geared towards to average every day user! WTF is wrong with them? Does MS pay them not to release a average everyday user OS? If the linux camp could execute now, then this could be like the former video card king (3dfx) getting stomped and stomped some more for the KO by the under-dog (nvidia).
Funny how every day joe blow can log onto a ***** FTP and download the beta the day it was released with all the necessary cracks to get around the activation when developers who realy need it can't even get it when they *paid* for a MSDN subsription, lol! I know more then one place to d/l it if you want it that bad, Greg. I could download the latest build to check out myself but i'm just not interested in XP anymore. I planned on *buying* the final retail the first chance I could, no matter what, just to have it. But i'm just not gonna deal with their lame/strict schemes for my hard-earned money! For christ sakes, IT ONLY A STUPID OPERATING SYSTEM!! Heck, the only possible way I could tolerate those lame activation crap is to d/l the *****ed version of the final for free!
Linux! The time to execute and rule is NOW!! Ya snooze, ya lose! (now only if we could get more mainstream developers making stuff for linux, I would switch in a heartbeat)
Funny how every day joe blow can log onto a ***** FTP and download the beta the day it was released with all the necessary cracks to get around the activation when developers who realy need it can't even get it when they *paid* for a MSDN subsription, lol! I know more then one place to d/l it if you want it that bad, Greg. I could download the latest build to check out myself but i'm just not interested in XP anymore. I planned on *buying* the final retail the first chance I could, no matter what, just to have it. But i'm just not gonna deal with their lame/strict schemes for my hard-earned money! For christ sakes, IT ONLY A STUPID OPERATING SYSTEM!! Heck, the only possible way I could tolerate those lame activation crap is to d/l the *****ed version of the final for free!
Linux! The time to execute and rule is NOW!! Ya snooze, ya lose! (now only if we could get more mainstream developers making stuff for linux, I would switch in a heartbeat)
W4R3Z is censored? lol
Quote:<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Questionnaire:
Now is the time for the Linux camp to deliver a OS geared towards to average every day user! </font>
yeah keep on dreaming MS owns the desktop market and they will continue to own it for a while.
Now is the time for the Linux camp to deliver a OS geared towards to average every day user! </font>
yeah keep on dreaming MS owns the desktop market and they will continue to own it for a while.
